Said it before, and saying it again....

[DD696]

Miserable scuzzy prit-near worthless so many blankety blank expletives description of damned editor supplied with this game. If OpArt V (must be coming as there is no patch but a new version seems to be in the works) does not provide a better editor, count me out on buying.

[Simon Edmonds]

Given the superb quality of some the scenarios produced by the TOAW members that editor can't be all that bad.

[Rescue193]

Actually, the Editor is pretty bad. Clunky, counter-intuitive, tediously repetitive and just plain frustrating to use.

Its the scenario designers who must have the patience of saints; the temperament of angels; a well developed sense of masochism; the determination of... err... well... something that has an awful lot of determination... and, probably, far too much time on their hands [:D] who make it work.

[sithlord_shag]

Recently I have been working on some scenarios. It is with bitter regret that I realised that the event editor (aka evil ed) disproves the ancient scientific rule that the more you play with something the more joy you get.

[jmlima]

ORIGINAL: DD696

... (must be coming as there is no patch but a new version seems to be in the works) ...

That will be OpArt 2500 , named after the release year.

[Lobster]

[:D] Funny stuff.

Scenario Designer: "Why don't you at least have drop down menus?"
TOAW: "Drop down what?"

[76mm]

The few expert scenario developers left think that the editor is just fine, it probably helps that they've been working with it for some twenty years. I don't see many new scenarios coming out these days?

While my XML editor is far from perfect, you might want to try it, especially for events (https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... age=1&key=). I should warn you that while I've tested the events functions as much as I could, I haven't gotten much feedback from others so don't know if there are more bugs!

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

I don't see many new scenarios coming out these days?

Just nine pages of them:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4394277

[76mm]

How many of these are new scenarios rather than rejiggering of old scenarios to work with TOAW IV? I clicked on about ten of them and every single one was an update of an old scenario (many of which were probably created 10-20 years ago at this point). How many new scenarios are there?

[sithlord_shag]

I kind of agree that the editor is mostly ok. If you work with it enough you can develop a bit of intuition around what potentially is avoidable. Planning what you do better overcomes about 90% of the problems. Evil-Ed though is a pain...

[rhinobones]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

How many new scenarios are there?

I've added a couple of new scenarios. How many from you?

Regards

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
How many from you?

None, and don't expect any. And?

[rhinobones]

ORIGINAL: 76mm
None, and don't expect any. And?

Sorry.

[76mm]

I should add that while I have not published, and do not plan to publish, any scenarios, I have spent a lot of time on creating a rather large scenario that I plan for personal use. So the fact that I haven't published any scenarios hardly means that I don't use the editor.

[golden delicious]

To be fair, the scrolling in the Force Editor was sped up in TOAW III, and the event editor made a lot easier to use at the same time.

However, the whole editor is a lot slower to respond since the new interface in TOAW IV. Like, if I want to set the arrival hex of a unit, I have to wait for three different dialogue boxes to load, each of which takes 2-3 seconds. That might not sound like a lot, but if you imagine you have to set sixteen units to the same arrival location, it becomes very painful. In III, these boxes show up more or less instantly when you click the button.

There are solutions to this for the designer such as fully setting up one unit before copying it, but it's hardly conducive to bringing new designers to the game, which is sort of needed to keep the thing alive.

[Bamilus]

At this point wouldn't it just be better to create an entirely new game with a similar design framework but using better code that is actually understood and can be better documented, rather than trying to continue to be limited by the existing code? I feel like a lot of issues that plague this game are sourced from using an ancient foundation created by a designer that hasn't been involved in the game for a long time, now.

I doubt any new game would get enough support or make financial sense for Matrix but if they are actually talking about a TOAW V then I think it should be discussed (and probably has).

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

At this point wouldn't it just be better to create an entirely new game with a similar design framework but using better code that is actually understood and can be better documented, rather than trying to continue to be limited by the existing code?

Sure. Off you go.

Thing is, as you note it's not a financially viable project for a game company. Norm did it as a labour of love, and the alternative is an amateur group project which is likely to be a good deal less stable due to the variable standard of coding.

[Curtis Lemay]

Norm didn't even start from scratch. TOAW had plenty of code from his earlier projects. Starting from scratch now would be lunacy.

[StuccoFresco]

I tried to use the editor, and released a couple scenarios with scratch-made units, but even something as simple as placing units on the map was so unbearably complex and the UI so clunky that I gave up on making scenarios/mods entirely. I have mad respect for modders who can create wonders with it, but it is in no way a user-friendly or even very flexible editor. You can do almost everything, but doing everything is a slow and complex process.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: StuccoFresco

I tried to use the editor, and released a couple scenarios with scratch-made units, but even something as simple as placing units on the map was so unbearably complex and the UI so clunky that I gave up on making scenarios/mods entirely. I have mad respect for modders who can create wonders with it, but it is in no way a user-friendly or even very flexible editor. You can do almost everything, but doing everything is a slow and complex process.

Placing units on the map ia about as trivial as imaginable. I have no idea what can be done for designers who can't handle that task.