Mixed feelings about AI game

[Nowi Ribak]

Hello folks,

situation as of 22.01.42 is quite nuanced - one the one hand the Jap advance is thorough, capturing Wake, Canton Island, Guadalcanal, Borneo etc. I try to leave them room, play mostly Sir Robin while consolidating at a few important landsites/ports.

Now the early push to the Solomons has surprised me, the capture of Canton was also quite aggressive IMO, so I prepared some small counterstrikes.

A.
KB sailing around Ceylon and then vanishing north (probably to resupply) has opened the region for counterattacks, 2 of my smaller TFs with 1 CA, 2-3 CLs and 4-5 DDs plow through JAP AKs and sink ~15 and some other stuff. Now although this feels "off" I dont know what else to do? Just let them advance and invade without screening forces? Ignore vulnerable AKs just for the sake of it? Why only send AKs and PBs for major invasions? The also love sending AKs into CB defended ports ... nothing I can do there.

B.
Same in the Solomon islands - very early push into the Coral See, seemed like a major threat for me. Gathered 3 CVs and counterattacked - mostly just again sinking AKs, no opposition so far.

C.
Another minor observation: AI led 2 DDs and 5 AOs into the coastal battery at Bataan, completely wiping the floor with them (also mines ...). Now I did not do any thing for that to happen, just pulled back my INF forces to Bataan, as the JAP army is advancing aggressivly on the Philipines islands.

Questions:
-So am I allowed to sink some AKs? Does this threaten his cargo fleet in a major way, or are some losses expected?
-Punishing JAP advance into Coral See ok? It is a major threat for Noumea and my US-AUS supply link, so I cant just let them flood me with AKs and army troops ...
-Does losing 5 AOs end the JAP game, or can I play on?


Now please dont just spam 'dont play AI', it wouldnt be helpful for my case, as I am really trying to accomodate to its weaknesses.

BR

[Yaab]

Which scenario do you play? Do you use the updated AI files?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4257473

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Nowi Ribak

Hello folks,

situation as of 22.01.42 is quite nuanced - one the one hand the Jap advance is thorough, capturing Wake, Canton Island, Guadalcanal, Borneo etc. I try to leave them room, play mostly Sir Robin while consolidating at a few important landsites/ports.

Now the early push to the Solomons has surprised me, the capture of Canton was also quite aggressive IMO, so I prepared some small counterstrikes.

A.
KB sailing around Ceylon and then vanishing north (probably to resupply) has opened the region for counterattacks, 2 of my smaller TFs with 1 CA, 2-3 CLs and 4-5 DDs plow through JAP AKs and sink ~15 and some other stuff. Now although this feels "off" I dont know what else to do? Just let them advance and invade without screening forces? Ignore vulnerable AKs just for the sake of it? Why only send AKs and PBs for major invasions? The also love sending AKs into CB defended ports ... nothing I can do there.

B.
Same in the Solomon islands - very early push into the Coral See, seemed like a major threat for me. Gathered 3 CVs and counterattacked - mostly just again sinking AKs, no opposition so far.

C.
Another minor observation: AI led 2 DDs and 5 AOs into the coastal battery at Bataan, completely wiping the floor with them (also mines ...). Now I did not do any thing for that to happen, just pulled back my INF forces to Bataan, as the JAP army is advancing aggressivly on the Philipines islands.

Questions:
-So am I allowed to sink some AKs? Does this threaten his cargo fleet in a major way, or are some losses expected?
-Punishing JAP advance into Coral See ok? It is a major threat for Noumea and my US-AUS supply link, so I cant just let them flood me with AKs and army troops ...
-Does losing 5 AOs end the JAP game, or can I play on?


Now please dont just spam 'dont play AI', it wouldnt be helpful for my case, as I am really trying to accomodate to its weaknesses.

BR

In situation A, the invasion TFs were in a place they did historically go, so striking at them is quite reasonable to me.

The Japanese expect to lose a few AK types but if you get over 30 of them before mid-1942 you might be resisting too much. The AI needs to take bases and get some supply to them if you want reasonable resistance later.

Japan can make more AOs - some from conversions and some fresh builds.
Noumea can be defended from Noumea. Striking in the Coral Sea wipes out too much of the shipping that could be headed for the Solomons or Port Moresby.

[Nowi Ribak]

Scen 6 and I think so, with updated files.

---

Ok thx, wont "overdo" it then.

But I dont want them to take PM ... and they seem to have CONSIDERABLE forces already (keep in mind - end of 01/42, so basically start of campagin) on Guadalcanal, Munda etc.
I mean dont get me wrong - I like the ahistorical approach, but even in this case the Americans would have defended AUS, admiral King always thought about the Coral Sea ...

[Ian R]

Quote from Alfred - you get a better game from the IJ scripted opponent if you let it have the must take bases and then dig in -

Time and time this question is asked. It really is pointless. It is not the specific script, not the particular scenario which matters. Any scenario/script (yes even Nast Nasty Tier 3) will cease to be competitive if the Allied human player focuses on stopping at all cost computer Japan from capturing in 1942 these bases:

1. Singapore
2. Manila
3. Clark Field
4. Bataan
5. Palembang
6. Batavia
7. Soerbaja
8. Rangoon
9. Mandalay
10.Rabaul


These bases are absolutely essential for any computer script.

Not quite essential but still of great assistance in maintaining a competitive AI player is for these bases to also be captured by the computer.


11. Port Blair
12. Port Moresby
13. Tarawa
14. Shortlands
16. Lunga
17. Akyab


All these bases (with the exception of Port Moresby) were historically captured by Japan, and it wasn't enough to make Japan really competitive in the war.

[Rusty1961]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Quote from Alfred - you get a better game from the IJ scripted opponent if you let it have the must take bases and then dig in -

Time and time this question is asked. It really is pointless. It is not the specific script, not the particular scenario which matters. Any scenario/script (yes even Nast Nasty Tier 3) will cease to be competitive if the Allied human player focuses on stopping at all cost computer Japan from capturing in 1942 these bases:

1. Singapore
2. Manila
3. Clark Field
4. Bataan
5. Palembang
6. Batavia
7. Soerbaja
8. Rangoon
9. Mandalay
10.Rabaul


These bases are absolutely essential for any computer script.

Not quite essential but still of great assistance in maintaining a competitive AI player is for these bases to also be captured by the computer.


11. Port Blair
12. Port Moresby
13. Tarawa
14. Shortlands
16. Lunga
17. Akyab


All these bases (with the exception of Port Moresby) were historically captured by Japan, and it wasn't enough to make Japan really competitive in the war.

"...it really is pointless".

I love how exasperated he gets when a new player, or just someone who doesn't have his level of expertise, asks a question.

THAT is what makes this forum so entertaining.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

"...it really is pointless".

I love how exasperated he gets when a new player, or just someone who doesn't have his level of expertise, asks a question.

THAT is what makes this forum so entertaining.

Really?
Just !
Then be helpful.

[Platoonist]

I've haven't had a game yet against the Japanese AI yet where sooner or later it doesn't degenerate into something of a one-sided rout despite trying to pull the horns in. But that was the nature of the actual war on the naval side anyway.

[Rusty1961]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

"...it really is pointless".

I love how exasperated he gets when a new player, or just someone who doesn't have his level of expertise, asks a question.

THAT is what makes this forum so entertaining.

Really?
Just !
Then be helpful.

[:-]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

"...it really is pointless".

I love how exasperated he gets when a new player, or just someone who doesn't have his level of expertise, asks a question.

THAT is what makes this forum so entertaining.

Really?
Just !
Then be helpful.

[:-]

Well then, if you don't want/like beer, then have something else.

[Sardaukar]

What is with "nazi card"?

Besides, Nazi Coca-Cola was Fanta.

Fanta originated as a Coca-Cola substitute in 1940 due to the American trade embargo of Nazi Germany which affected the availability of Coca-Cola ingredients; the current formulation was developed in Italy.

[Moltrey]

Nowi:
It can also help in a versus AI game to set your difficulty level to Very Hard. One thing that enables is supply to more remote Japanese bases without the need for the transport network. They will hold out longer (obviously) and put up a better fight. I am not an expert on the other effects it enables, AndyMac is the one to talk to about that. I do recommend his AI upgrades the others have mentioned. It provides the Japanese AI with a handful of offensive "playbooks" from which one is chosen at random at game start. As long as you as the Allies don't poke around and figure out where the AI strengths, etc. are while playing, it can help make for a more unpredictable enemy. At least for the early war years.

[Rusty1961]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe



Really?
Just !
Then be helpful.

[:-]

Well then, if you don't want/like beer, then have something else.

[:@]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961



[:-]

Well then, if you don't want/like beer, then have something else.

[:@]

[Yaab]

Thousand Beer Reich?

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Thousand Beer Reich?

[PaxMondo]

To answer the OP,

If this is a stock scenario, then you need to play on HARD at least. Balanced is VERY HARD.

If you are using one of the Ironman scenarios, then HARD is ok, with a few days every month on VERY HARD.

This is in addition to Alfred's notes about what bases to allow the AI to advance.

If you play IJ against allied AI, then you are only need to watch the difficulty setting as noted above and NOT take Pearl or any other deep strike early in the game.

[Mock726]

I would also recommend playing against a Very Hard mode Japanese AI. It appears to allow the Japanese industry to continue operating close to peak production for much of the war, and the Japanese can never have enough stuff to throw in the way of the Allied juggernaut.

Historically the Japanese did seem to use invasion task forces with quite feeble defenders, hence the invasion convoys of AK's escorted by Patrol Boats. Part of their fondness for overly complicated operational planning. Don't use one task force when you can use three instead.

After securing their early war goals the Japanese AI settles down to defend what they have, and seems to do a pretty good job. But if they only capture half of the locations mentioned above its going to be a much shorter war. The AI does not seem to have any "second surge" and if they don't capture these places early on I don't believe they will try later in the war to go after them.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Mock726

I would also recommend playing against a Very Hard mode Japanese AI. It appears to allow the Japanese industry to continue operating close to peak production for much of the war, and the Japanese can never have enough stuff to throw in the way of the Allied juggernaut.

Historically the Japanese did seem to use invasion task forces with quite feeble defenders, hence the invasion convoys of AK's escorted by Patrol Boats. Part of their fondness for overly complicated operational planning. Don't use one task force when you can use three instead.

After securing their early war goals the Japanese AI settles down to defend what they have, and seems to do a pretty good job. But if they only capture half of the locations mentioned above its going to be a much shorter war. The AI does not seem to have any "second surge" and if they don't capture these places early on I don't believe they will try later in the war to go after them.

They will try again and again - up to the expiry date for the script to capture the base. This is why the Allied player can smash the AI - the targets are identified and the Allies can concentrate their defences and do some raiding on the incessant invasion TFs of the Japanese.

The other big issue is the poor make-up of the IJN TFs. The AI cannot do longer range planning so it will grab whatever vessels happen to be available, whether they are suited to the task or not. Thus a fast vessel like a CA is plunked in a slow moving xAKL TF which wastes its speed advantage.

If I understand correctly, AndyMac's new files for stock scenarios provide different scripts with a wider range of IJ targets and some unexpected raiding behaviour. That alone will add some challenge for the Allied player, but add the Hard or Very Hard setting to give the AI more supply so it can actually build at some of those scattered outposts.

[RangerJoe]

It is fun to destroy all six fleet carriers, some CVEs and CVLs as well before the Junyo comes in - not to mention 4 or 5 BBs as well. [:D]