Disband units

[Lisien]

If I disband units in first turn as soviet, will this units come back later or I will have to build this divisions again? I opened Minsk pocket and I can save around 200k manpower and 1000afv by disbanding divisions.

[loki100]

disband is a permanent loss so yes, you'll have to spend the AP to replace

[Lisien]

Thanks loki

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Lisien

If I disband units in first turn as soviet, will this units come back later or I will have to build this divisions again? I opened Minsk pocket and I can save around 200k manpower and 1000afv by disbanding divisions.

In game terms it's probably worth it to disband all these guys, since you'll save a ton of manpower and you can spend APs later.

I would feel uncomfortable doing this for game balance though; IMO, it shouldn't really be possible. Against a human it feels gamey to me, and against the AI I wouldn't do it

[Joel Billings]

Has someone come up with a house rule for this (re not allowing disbands in a near pocket situation)?

[Firewire9452]

I kind of think that disbands should not be allowed for units that began the turn isolated. If a unit wasn’t in supply during logistics, I have trouble seeing how all that manpower and equipment could be shipped back to a pool.

[AlbertN]

I do not think a House Rule is needed for how it would factually do good.
But I believe the system can simply implement a "Must disband before moving" and "Must not have enemy unit within X hexes" type of check before to allow a unit disbanding.

Alternatively I am not against a 'Soviets cannot disband in 1941' type of ordeal like for the Motorization business.
I know many player vouch for disbanding this SU, due to 'trucks' or simply some weapon-system that is sub optimal or can be otherwise redistributed better or whatever, but even that is kind of gaming the system to min-max the effect, and disbanding comes right into play there too. (Exactly why I feel the Axis should be able to build their own SUs at least with admin points)

Often the problem with House Rules is that they can hardly be kept in check, henceforth hardcoded gaming mechanics are way superior.

[56ajax]

I checked my T1 and was able to open the Northern pocket but none of my pocketed units had the Disband function enabled. I was able to strip out support units and march out some HQs. Thats it.

[AlbertN]

Ajax, I do not think the matter is just isolated stuff (And even there I think it'd be gamey to strip SU units from previously isolated units).

The problem is non isolated troops - but about to disband troops that are at risk or fated to be isolated. (Think of a 'failed' encirclement with a gap of 1-2 hexes or so - something that next enemy turn will get encircled proper)

[carlkay58]

My house rule has been if you can't move to the Reserve Box you can't disband.

[56ajax]

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

My house rule has been if you can't move to the Reserve Box you can't disband.

Does that apply to Fortified Units and Depots for that matter?

[carlkay58]

Fortified units are special in that if they are not on rail line they could not move to the Reserve box so they can be disbanded as long as they did not start isolated.

Depots are the same way - no disbanding unless non-isolated. However depots do not instantly disband and dump their supplies/freight back into the pools - it takes a rail connection and time (as much as four turns for a full railyard 1 depot) to empty.

[Arthurius]

What's about merge? Is merging a permanent loss of units shells also, so I'll have to spend the AP to replace?

[carlkay58]

Yes merge eliminates the merged unit forever. If you are the Soviets you have the option of spending APs to rebuild the unit later. The other nationalities are not able to do this.

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: Lisien

I opened Minsk pocket and I can save around 200k manpower and 1000afv by disbanding divisions.

Why would you do this though? This is clearly a gamey move: If you cannot march a unit out of a bad situation it should be clear that disbanding would not be feasible irl either. Does that not break the immersion for you?