Aircraft manpower?

[Nirosi]

Hi Alvaro,

If you have time to check it, I think there might be a problem with aircraft repair. But not 100% sure.

In my game with Sveint I had serious manpower problems with the Soviets. So, I reduced replacements a lot (even to 0 some turns) for land units. Yet, although I was making a surplus (with often little or 0 upkeep) the manpower stockpile was still… going down. [&:]

What I think might have happened is that I let the aircrafts to be repaired (massively) because they do not require manpower for repairs and did not know what to do with all those PPs. However, I believe they might still do require MP in the background, because they were the only units getting repaired and I was still losing MP in the stockpile despite the screen showing 0 upkeep. So, I believe it still removes MP but from the stockpile only despite not showing it in upkeep when repairing aircraft.

This impression got some confirmation when I stopped even the aircrafts to repair and then, finally, manpower stockpile when up… So not 100% sure, but that is the only explanation that makes sense for now.

So, if you have time to check it just in case, it would be appreciated.

[Nirosi]

Hi Alvaro,

I just want to make sure you did see this post about MP and planes, so I am pushing it up.

Also, can you confirm if the base readiness cost for a bombing mission is indeed 12% and not 6%. I asked because the manual says 6%, but in game it is alwasy 12% minimum even without any interference from ennemy. Just want to make sure it is not a bug, just a mistake in the manual.

Thanks in advance,

[Harrybanana]

Alvaro,

Have you had a chance to look at the two possible bugs that Nirosi posted on above? Of particular concern to me is that air units are indeed losing 12% effectiveness rather than 6% from air strikes. An example is given in the screenshots below, where a single air strike (uncontested and no air losses) causes the air unit to lose 12% effectiveness rather than just the 6% it is supposed to lose.

[Harrybanana]

Air Units used to provide Ground Support for land unit attacks are only losing 6%; so this is working correctly.

[stjeand]

I wondered why my airpower was always SO LOW on efficiency. Thought I was just bad at using them..
Well I am but...

[AlvaroSousa]

I just saw this. Sometimes the forums mark threads as read for some reason and I miss them.

Yea it is taking 12% off.

The scenario says 6%

I'll put that on my fix list.

[AlvaroSousa]

Air repair takes zero manpower. It only uses manpower to create the unit.

If you lost all your manpower and your air repaired you might have missed a unit.
Or did you set repair to zero and it still repaired the air and used manpower?

[Nirosi]

Only the air units were on repair (and were actualy repairing). The upkeep was showing 0 MP (so that part was ok as it was showing no MP used), but the stockpile was still going... down[&:], even though the stats were actualy showing a surplus and not a net loss. Hence my "theory" about the aircraft repair still affecting the stoktpile (but not the upkeep)...

I'll try to reproduce it to see if I can...

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

I just saw this. Sometimes the forums mark threads as read for some reason and I miss them.

Yea it is taking 12% off.

The scenario says 6%

I'll put that on my fix list.

Excellent. Thank you.

[Harrybanana]

Alvaro,

Just to be clear, when you say you are going to reduce air unit effectiveness loss for air strikes on ground units from 12% to 6%; I assume you will also be fixing it for air field attacks and attacks on ships. Is that right, or will those remain at 12% effectiveness loss?

[AlvaroSousa]

I'm checking what is up with that. In the scenario editor it says 6% but it is doing 12%. I have to find out why.

You fly a mission it should cost effectiveness automatically.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

You fly a mission it should cost effectiveness automatically.

I don't dispute that, but 12% seems pretty harsh. Even 6% may be little on the high side, especially where in most cases you are causing less effectiveness loss to the enemy.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Air repair takes zero manpower. It only uses manpower to create the unit.

If you lost all your manpower and your air repaired you might have missed a unit.
Or did you set repair to zero and it still repaired the air and used manpower?

Alvaro I can confirm that this is not WAD and that in fact air repair is using manpower.

I ran a test using the 39 scenario where I turned off repair/upgrade for every single German unit except a single TAC bomber. I then used the TAC bomber to make a few unescorted bombing runs against the Polish air force. Over two turns it lost 5 steps. I also used German production to build infantry units so that its manpower was reduced to 860. Below are screenshots showing the Air units strength and the German production.

[Harrybanana]

So if Air units are not using manpower for repair than I would expect that on my next turn my German Manpower would be at 890 (860 + 30 per turn German manpower). But as you can see below it was only at 887. This is, of course, 860 + 30 - 3 used to repair 3 steps of the air unit.

Having said this, I am worried that if you fix this it will create manpower surpluses for Germany and perhaps even Russia.

Also, will the next patch fix it so that air units only lose 6% efficiency rather than 12% for flying missions?

[AlvaroSousa]

I just checked the code. Apparently I didn't do it or I didn't save it. Fixing it now.

[Harrybanana]

Great. Thanks Alvaro.

But will you also be fixing it so air units only lose 6% efficiency for all attacks as stated in the Manual, rather than the 12% they are currently losing?

[stjeand]

I was able to address the air efficiency loss for attacking in the editor but it is not correct.

The editor states that they lost 6% per attack...BUT it is hardcoded somewhere to be 2x.

I changed the editor to 3% and it is now 6% for air units...though strategic is 8%...which is okay...

What I can't seems to figure out is when they move what the loss should be. The Editor says 15% loss per move...but they appear to lose 8%...which throws me off.
I can mess with the number a bit to see what it does.

[stjeand]

Okay this is weird...

SO for air...

Movement Efficiency loss is half what is set in the Editor, but combat loss is double.

Makes no sense at all.


Has to be hardcoded somewhere.

[AlvaroSousa]

Look at the new build

[AlvaroSousa]

Movement loss in the rules is correct which is 8%. I have to look what I did in the code that it says 15%.
The combat loss is also based on kills to damage conversion that applies effectiveness loss instead of a kill.