Limit possible number of breaktroughs per category?

[Duedman]

I'm currently playing as Allies in a MP game and I think I got Infantry Weapons 3 in April 1942 (!) with the russians. Got Inf2 at the start of Barbarossa. I can not remember how many breakthroughs I had but this seems way too fast.

In another game I also ran into Inf2 in Mid 1941.
Is this intended? If you start the 1942 Case Blue scenario for example you are stuck with Inf1 for ages...

[Taxman66]

That's worth a thought. The whole research system is a good candidate for an overhaul if there is to be a new generation of these games.

As for the other...
The research choices for the later start scenarios are "interesting", to put it overly kindly.

[El_Condoro]

Research the one area that is not moddable beyond initial levels and that sort of thing. It would be great if research could be scripted like many other aspects of the game. For example, if modders could turn off tech boosts or limit their effects.

[Sugar]

I don`t think the reasearch especially of Inf.-Weapons for Russia is too fast, of course lvl.3 should be ready in 42 after 3 years of research. One year of research is really enough fpr any lvl.

They shouldn`t have better defense values than other nation`s Inf.

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: Sugar


They shouldn`t have better defense values than other nation`s Inf.

I thought they were equal, that is SU lv 3 army & corps had equal attack/defend values vs GE lv 2 army & corps.

Someone please check me but Lv 3 Army (corps)has the same Soft Hard attack/defend values vs GE lv 2 Army (corps) but the attack values for Arty=>Tank and defend values for Light Armor/Tank are higher. That's an error correct? Actually SU Corps lv 3 values in these categories are equal to GE Army lv 2 and SU Armies are stronger than SU lv 2 Shock Armies.


Personally I think the research system works pretty well. If you are playing a skilled player SU mobilization is <20 (w/o Lithuania) until the end of '40, MPP's are scarce. If you (SU) have lv 2 Inf Wpns in '41 you have sacrificed lv 3 Ind Tech or lv2 AA or Inf warfare or you aren't fielding enough units. Personally Id rather have lv 3 Ind Tech in '41 than lv 2 Inf Wpns.

I would like to see the research expanded in future games. Maybe AT being included in more units (either SC or Commanders did this in the past). S&I having a more dynamic spotting quality and Naval units getting increased spotting.

[El_Condoro]

Yes, the Russians start their infantry weapons behind the Germans and by Level 3, they have caught up. The issue with the timing is that the balance gets whacked when the Russians start Barbarossa with Inf Weapons 2. As the Axis player in the example from Duedman, I can say that it (along with his great gameplay) stunted any advance my Germans could make. I didn't even take Kiev, much less get anywhere near the 3 major Russian cities, before his (now Level 3) Russian infantry swept all before them in counterattack.

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: El_Condoro

Yes, the Russians start their infantry weapons behind the Germans and by Level 3, they have caught up. The issue with the timing is that the balance gets whacked when the Russians start Barbarossa with Inf Weapons 2. As the Axis player in the example from Duedman, I can say that it (along with his great gameplay) stunted any advance my Germans could make. I didn't even take Kiev, much less get anywhere near the 3 major Russian cities, before his (now Level 3) Russian infantry swept all before them in counterattack.

I'm saying SU level 3 Army/Corp are AHEAD of GE level 2 Army/Corp. Please re-red my comment

As far as SU having level 2 Infantry Weapons in '41 they are sacrificing something else. I don't see that as a problem.

[PvtBenjamin]

To be clear these are the Attack & Defense values for SU & GE armies

Attack SU GE

lv 0 lv 3 lv 0 lv 2

Artillery 2 5 2 4
Light Armor 2 5 2 4
Tank 2 5 2 4

Defense

Light Armor 2 6 2 5
Tank 2 6 2 5


Is your problem level 2 Inf Wpns or the above SU Army attack/defend values are incorrectly starting at 2 ( they used to be 1). Corps are starting at 1 they should be 0.

[El_Condoro]

[deleted]

[El_Condoro]

I won't speak for the OP but my issue with this situation is that in every game that I have played (and I accept that's not nearly as many as the veterans here) the Russians don't get IW2 until later in 41, when Barbarossa can roll over them for a few months before the Russians get back on their feet. When the tech boosts and luck has them start at IW2, then Barbarossa gets delayed too much.

[Duedman]

Inf2 mid 41 is just too early and should not be possible imho.
Inf3 April 1942 snuffs out every tiny chance the Axis might still have

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

To be clear these are the Attack & Defense values for SU & GE armies

Attack SU GE

lv 0 lv 3 lv 0 lv 2

Artillery 2 5 2 4
Light Armor 2 5 2 4
Tank 2 5 2 4

Defense

Light Armor 2 6 2 5
Tank 2 6 2 5


Is your problem level 2 Inf Wpns or the above SU Army attack/defend values are incorrectly starting at 2 ( they used to be 1). Corps are starting at 1 they should be 0.

I've just checked and you are right, there are some categories that need correcting and I'll get that fixed for the next patch.

[PvtBenjamin]

Thanks Bill.

I'm sure these patches are a major process, especially when its really 2-3 games.

Could I suggest maybe having willing knowledgeable players (Taxman?/Sugar? not me! [:-]) beta test the patches before they are released.

Just a thought.

Thanks again.

[Taxman66]

Ugh, no thanks.

I do suggest building or using a database comparison tool so that various values (e.g. unit statistics, terrain/weather statistics, etc...) can be checked between versions, before a patch is released.

That way you should prevent accidentally changing values that were not meant to be changed.

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Ugh, no thanks.

I do suggest building or using a database comparison tool so that various values (e.g. unit statistics, terrain/weather statistics, etc...) can be checked between versions, before a patch is released.

That way you should prevent accidentally changing values that were not meant to be changed.

Now your just showing off