Air Superiority Enemy phase

[DeletedUser1769703214]

When an Air Superiority Mission is set up to fly only in the enemy phase the Air Superiority will fly during the ground attack and use up fuel. Here is the airbase before a ground attack and the 2nd snapshot is after the ground attack. Is this WAD?

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Again, this is only to fly in Enemy phase and if I continue to attack I am not going to have the fuel to fly during the enemy turn which defeats the purpose of setting to only fly during the enemy phase if I continue to attack in the AS zone set to enemy phase.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Fatigue goes up too on the aircraft for every ground attack too I understand how this could be the intention but I just want to make sure it is. Thank you in advance.

[GibsonPete]

I am sure you considered this but do the GA air directives include or exclude the fighters your have designated for the AS air directives? I have found if you let the AI choose who flies it can lead to problems. If you choose and the AI assist is OFF orders are rarely disobeyed.

[Zovs]

Forgive my ignorance but going from 83 to 79 does not seem that drastic.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Forgive my ignorance but going from 83 to 79 does not seem that drastic.

No, it isn't that drastic until you realize that was only one battle hex. I had over 12 battles in the AS area.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

I can only say that this is WAD since I have heard not a word from anyone. I will just deal with it until more people start posting about it.

[Joel Billings]

I think this is WAD. Air units on AS are still available for auto intercepts. At least I think they are supposed to be. I assume all the air units are showing as Patrol in the combat detail, which means they are flying basic CAP. Since they aren't flying in the friendly phase, they have miles available during the friendly movement phase and thus will perform auto intercepts. If you can point me to a rule that contradicts this, please do. Now in the enemy phase, they should expend miles flying into their AS box. They should be better at intercepting enemy units in this box. They should then get to use those miles flown to intercept enemy GS missions during ground combat in the box. Outside of the box, they probably are still available for auto intercepts if they have any miles flown. It is possible I'm missing some rule, so please point me at it if I am. The design of what units get to intercept what missions got incredibly complicated, so it's very possible that something isn't working as desired (assuming we even managed to document all the rules).

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I think this is WAD. Air units on AS are still available for auto intercepts. At least I think they are supposed to be. I assume all the air units are showing as Patrol in the combat detail, which means they are flying basic CAP. Since they aren't flying in the friendly phase, they have miles available during the friendly movement phase and thus will perform auto intercepts. If you can point me to a rule that contradicts this, please do. Now in the enemy phase, they should expend miles flying into their AS box. They should be better at intercepting enemy units in this box. They should then get to use those miles flown to intercept enemy GS missions during ground combat in the box. Outside of the box, they probably are still available for auto intercepts if they have any miles flown. It is possible I'm missing some rule, so please point me at it if I am. The design of what units get to intercept what missions got incredibly complicated, so it's very possible that something isn't working as desired (assuming we even managed to document all the rules).

Thank you for the reply.

No, the aircraft are not flying "patrol" since there are no air battles in the hex other than the OPS loss to my AS aircraft for the "Enemy" phase flying during my "friendly" phase ground attacks.

I have an Air Superiority directive set up for "ONLY" Enemy phase. While doing ground attacks I will lose aircraft from that AS during the battle & take up fuel during my turn flying to these battle hexes. No other aircraft are flying except for my Air Superiority set for "Enemy Phase". Even the Soviets are not flying. Many ground attacks incurred losses to planes set to fly only the Enemy turn. To me it is like I am flying both phases anyway so why the setting for "Friendly" or "Enemy" turn? Anyway, off my soap box and will just deal with it.

I have no idea if there is a rule in the manual for this or not since I am only observing the results I get when setting up for flying either Friendly or enemy phase. I will go and search the manual.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Here is info from the manual.

Here is the Rule for Air Superiority for the 3 different phases they can be used highlighted. Thus if I want to fly in Enemy phase I am taking losses in the friendly phase which should not be the case I would think. The three setting is "Both", "Friendly Only", or "Enemy Only".

[DeletedUser1769703214]

More info from the manual.

Hightlighted in yellow on this snapshot says that I already paid for the miles. Per my first post where you can see where FUEL was expanded on just one ground attack taking away from the planes flying in the "Enemy" phase only. Highlighted in Green further points to the fact that this is 100% not the case per the rules in the manual and what is happening in the game since fuel is clearly being taken away. I hope this helps.

****Again I am ONLY flying Enemy phase Air Superiority over all the map in this area****
*****All ground battles had no air combat in them other than the losses to my AS fighters*****

SEE POST #13 this thread for my final airbase that is flying ONLY AS missions and not a single Air battle happended during my turn. ZERO Air battles, zilch, none, NADA. the Fuel went down substantially flying only "enemy" phase missions

There are multiple problems I see here with AS according to the manual and what I have shown.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Forgive my ignorance but going from 83 to 79 does not seem that drastic.

No, it isn't that drastic until you realize that was only one battle hex. I had over 12 battles in the AS area.

Plus, the manual said this should not happen & it is per above post.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

This is my Airbase at the end of the turn pictured in post #1 & #2 and you can see the Fuel & Ammo clearly being subtracted when the manual said it should not be that I highlighted in green in post #11

Flying ONLY AS missions for "Enemy" phase and not a single Air battle happended during my turn. ZERO Air battles, zilch, none, NADA. the Fuel went down substantially flying only "enemy" phase AS missions. Not to mention losing aircraft during the ground combat

[DeletedUser1769703214]

If you would like to pull the turn off of the Server to check out what I am talking about I have saved it to the Server and have not done any other moves besides what is in front of Moscow. You will see that no Air battles took place along with the air losses. You can check my Air directives too and see I only have AS running that part of the map.

It is my Jubjub game turn 12. Please let me know if you want to look at this or not. Otherwise I will just continue with the turn.

[Joel Billings]

I've downloaded your last 3 saves, so you can continue. It would help if you could point me at the airfield you are looking at. I'll take a look at this later this weekend. Does seem like you shouldn't be charged any additional fuel. Don't know if the op loss is a delayed report or not, will need to test it out.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I've downloaded your last 3 saves, so you can continue. It would help if you could point me at the airfield you are looking at. I'll take a look at this later this weekend. Does seem like you shouldn't be charged any additional fuel. Don't know if the op loss is a delayed report or not, will need to test it out.

The airbase is Rzhev.

[Zovs]

HYLA you are correct on all points,I did preface my statement with my Ignorance, lol.

You are a wealth of info, I am starting some new tests on .16 next week.

[metaphore]

Actually, I just don't even understand how it's supposed to be working when "Enemy Only" is selected. The rulebook is only telling us that "Friendly Only", "Enemy and Friendly" or "Enemy Only" can be selected but, obviously, what follow about how it's working can't apply to those three options simultaneously. Please, can you be a little bit more specific and tell us what is supposed to change when selecting those different options?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: metaphore

Actually, I just don't even understand how it's supposed to be working when "Enemy Only" is selected. The rulebook is only telling us that "Friendly Only", "Enemy and Friendly" or "Enemy Only" can be selected but, obviously, what follow about how it's working can't apply to those three options simultaneously. Please, can you be a little bit more specific and tell us what is supposed to change when selecting those different options?

enemy - only fly the AS in the enemy air phase, good as a defensive mission but also can be linked to how you set up naval patrol (enemy/friendly/both have different effects)
friendly - only fly the AS in your phase, more an offensive mission as you seek to put fighters over enemy airspace
both - I'll leave you to work this out?

Effect on GS/air transport. Basically generates half the air miles that you could lay down in both.

So I'd suggest the rule book sounds fairly accurate.

Key bit (to me), AS is not really the mission to interact with GS. It will, or the fighters can be called in but that is much better handled via the GS or auto-intercept missions

A lot of this makes more sense in WiTW. The Axis player relies on 'enemy' AS as that is when the bombers are over the Reich. The allies rely on 'friendly' AS as, yep, that is when the bombers are over the Reich and the LW in the skies.

Or ... to be pedantic, I still hold to my view that in WiTE2 AS is a pretty esoteric mission and you need to understand the things it does better than just auto-intercept and why you are not just using auto-intercept.

[metaphore]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: metaphore

Actually, I just don't even understand how it's supposed to be working when "Enemy Only" is selected. The rulebook is only telling us that "Friendly Only", "Enemy and Friendly" or "Enemy Only" can be selected but, obviously, what follow about how it's working can't apply to those three options simultaneously. Please, can you be a little bit more specific and tell us what is supposed to change when selecting those different options?

enemy - only fly the AS in the enemy air phase, good as a defensive mission but also can be linked to how you set up naval patrol (enemy/friendly/both have different effects)
friendly - only fly the AS in your phase, more an offensive mission as you seek to put fighters over enemy airspace
both - I'll leave you to work this out?

Thank you loki for stating again the obvious: they will only fly during the phase chosen, or both!

Now, how will this work as described in the rulebook depending on the selected option:
"Air groups that are specifically assigned [...] will have a better chance of flying interception missions during the enemy movement phase in the target area of the air superiority air directive. This allow them to intercept enemy Ground Support and Transport mission. This is because the miles they flew for air superiority missions in the friendly execution phase..."

But if I didn't select this option (fly during friendly execution phase), what happen then? how many miles? how much supply? what bonus?

This description seems only to be working for a single option: "fly AS during both phases".
Then, what is supposed to happen when the other two are selected instead?