Axis fuel usage and production.

[Stamb]

I am playing GC and i got through the first winter pretty well. No territory loss.
I was not using bombing at all (except 1st turn) and i used GS few times. So there should be minimal fuel usage by luftwaffe.
I the next couple of turns i will be getting my panzers back to map from refit and i was building my plans where to advance next.

And then i saw fuel stores + pool and it looks like i will be out of full in the next 4-5 turns. So it will be April '41
T39 fuel stores + pool
[image=https://ibb.co/ZdvfFpn][/img]
T40 fuel stores + pool


Also i find it strange that on T39 production data was this:

As we can see we need 156k of fuel. We producded 166k. So we produce more than we need. But as you can see on the next image on T40 there is less fuel in storage.
1. Why do we have less fuel on the next turn if we produce more then we need?


2. Why fuel used is lower then fuel need if we have enough fuel in the pool?

[Stamb]

How can i insert images to display them in one post instead of making 1 post for 1 image?

[AlbertN]

I have the same problem for the Fuel. It is dropping low, low and further low. I cannot explain how or why as my gameplay has been similar to yours.
The LW bombers were not used (they're useless presently at least according to the combat logs while Russian IL2 are devastating aces) past T1, so just recon and air supply / transport missions; and your occasional air-naval mission to block supply (that since last patch does not isolate anyhow somehow).

But my Fuel Graph is in a deep dive. It does not matter IF the frontline is static / trench awr or there are grand offensive operations ongoing on the map. Also I've the vibe that a prepared attack by mobile units (taking 16 MPs) drains the relative amount of fuel from their stock vs the hasty ones. Because I assume the system counts MP allowance expended and not distance travelled. So even on a static front if across mud or winter the panzers do deliberate attacks they smoke a lot of fuel, despite just inching a few kilometers forth and maybe maneuvering a bit in the 'hex' to represent the fighting.

-- For the Image business I am not able to do so either so I cannot help you.

[Stamb]

I was not using panzers and motorized divisions at all, except of couple of battles from the position were they are, and fuel consumption on a chart in the winter is actually higher then in a summer where you are advancing multiple hexes per week...

[AlbertN]

I am not sure in which quantity exactly fuel is produced, but there is also the factor of 'civilian economy' that devours an amount of production for the Axis and pretty much nothing for the Soviets.
But I cannot wrap my head around the fuel and oil production as it seems very obscure in the logistic phase.

[ShaggyHiK]

Perhaps it makes sense to look for an answer in the use of vehicles to deliver supplies to the troops. In addition, the fuel can be used for the production of weapons. Is not it so? For example, troops need 150k, and another 80k to produce tanks, weapons and aircraft?

[Stamb]

ORIGINAL: ShaggyHiK


Perhaps it makes sense to look for an answer in the use of vehicles to deliver supplies to the troops. In addition, the fuel can be used for the production of weapons. Is not it so? For example, troops need 150k, and another 80k to produce tanks, weapons and aircraft?

My vehicles usage is much lower in the winter then in the summer as frontline is static and mostly units are gettings supplies within a 3 hexes range, so they use horses.

When we look here (bottom left chart):
https://ibb.co/9HvggKz
We can see that fuel that is used by a factories. Which is 103k and 52k by units. So its all included.

Now we can see that only 75k was used for for the factory upkeep and none by units. Ok maybe its a winter and 0 fuel get to a front. But why factories did not receive enough fuel?
Which makes situation even worse as 166k was produced and 75k was used. It means that 166k-75k = 91k which should go into pool or stored somewhere. But instead on the next turn we are again -100k or something about it.

[ShaggyHiK]

fuel used 75k only factory, how much used by troops is not shown.


It is difficult to imagine that the troops, even in a state of non-movement, do not use fuel. There are memories of German soldiers who burned barrels of fuel in the cold to keep warm.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

How can i insert images to display them in one post instead of making 1 post for 1 image?

you need to host the images somewhere - I use image shack. The forum only allows one image to be uploaded per post.

So from experience, there is indeed an apparent collapse in fuel production and storage from late 1942 onwards and ...

it matters not one bit. Heres the position for end of December 1944 (axis 1941 start), oil follows the same line. So not sure why it does what is shown but you can safely file it in the box 'production system' and just play the game.

[Stamb]

Fuel sittuation dictates where to go next. If for some reason i will be able to operate without a fuel with a same efficiency as with it - it makes no sense.
My previous questions and screenshots looks logical, at least to me. If there is some magical trigger in a code that says: if fuel < 300k - generate enough to keep armies going, then it is a pity.

[Stamb]

ORIGINAL: ShaggyHiK

fuel used 75k only factory, how much used by troops is not shown.


It is difficult to imagine that the troops, even in a state of non-movement, do not use fuel. There are memories of German soldiers who burned barrels of fuel in the cold to keep warm.

Yeah you are right. Even on first turns when units get fuel - that is not displayed on that chart.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Fuel sittuation dictates where to go next. If for some reason i will be able to operate without a fuel with a same efficiency as with it - it makes no sense.
My previous questions and screenshots looks logical, at least to me. If there is some magical trigger in a code that says: if fuel < 300k - generate enough to keep armies going, then it is a pity.

none of the WiTx series are industrial production simulators, thats part of the basic design. In the main the model works by avoiding shortages in production and imposing challenges in its distribution, again part of the basic design.

[AlbertN]

So long story short, Axis may as well not go to Caucasus.
They won't run out of fuel! Soviets will still have fuel even if somehow Caucasus falls fully and wholly to Axis (Don't think in this game this is even possible anyhow).

Economics dictate wars way more operations, logistics and strategies.

[Denniss]

Neither side should have endless supplies of fuel, they should not be able to sustain full-front offensives for months.

[Balou]

Is fuel the only commodity we will never be short of ? What about tanks, aircraft, armaments, supplies etc ?

[Stamb]

I am still interested to see what gonna happen. Its April 5th '42 and i have 400k left. In the next two month i should be out of fuel. There is no way i can get to Soviet fuel/oil fabrics in that time.

[panzer51]

Does oil have to be on rail-line to move around? Are pipelines simulated somehow?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

So long story short, Axis may as well not go to Caucasus.
They won't run out of fuel! Soviets will still have fuel even if somehow Caucasus falls fully and wholly to Axis (Don't think in this game this is even possible anyhow).

Economics dictate wars way more operations, logistics and strategies.

well we've been around this many times - in the time frame of the game the Axis couldn't have repaired and connected the oilfields, by the time that is plausible the game is over (using the VP system)

ORIGINAL: Stamb

I am still interested to see what gonna happen. Its April 5th '42 and i have 400k left. In the next two month i should be out of fuel. There is no way i can get to Soviet fuel/oil fabrics in that time.

I maybe the only person to have played an axis game 41-45, so the chart in post #9 maybe informative in this regard?

[Stamb]

ORIGINAL: loki100

I maybe the only person to have played an axis game 41-45, so the chart in post #9 maybe informative in this regard?

Yes, can you tell what happened there? How did you stop losing fuel? If you did not capture any oil fields then it makes no sense.

I am playing GC without an early end. So in my case there is a point to go to Caucasus.

Also it would be nice if someone can explain what is going on in my first post in this topic.

[AlbertN]

To me the game has a 'repair mechanism' (for both 'factories of oil' and 'railroads'), a 'transportation system' (Logistics).

But player opinions differing on what's better for the game health are diffused around here.