minelayers/minesweepers

[Drex]

I'm sure there are players out there who can tell me if there were distinct differences between the two ships that prevented them from performing the opposite function? Perhaps a sweeper couldn't lay mines but a minelayer might have been able to sweep.

[Subchaser]

Originally posted by Drex
I'm sure there are players out there who can tell me if there were distinct differences between the two ships that prevented them from performing the opposite function? Perhaps a sweeper couldn't lay mines but a minelayer might have been able to sweep.

Generally mine countermeasures vessel (MCMV) should be able to do both tasks –to clear a minefield and to lay mines. It depends on ship displacement, large MCV can be equipped with both minesweeping arrays that characterize a minesweeper, and mine laying equipment, 1 or more mine conveyors, generally U-shaped, to lay a minefield. In UV these two classes cannot do the both tasks due to playability I think, it’s hard to unify their abilities in TF, and there are only few classes represented.

A MSW is a ship, generally over 500 tons that is fitted to tow sweep arrays to locate and neutralize moored and bottom mines. Sweep arrays and mine cranes are not complicated devices and can be easily mounted on almost every auxiliary vessel. There are several types of the MSW ships, categorized by endurance, cruise speed, MWP (amount of mines picked up in one sortie) and their ability to act with combat task forces (fleet minesweepers and auxilliaries): MSWh - Minesweeper/harbor; MSWc – Minesweeper/coastal; MSWU - Minesweeper (coastal underwater locator); MSWm - Minesweeper (Motor); MCM – Minehunter, clears vital waterways, such as choke points, harbors and channels, of bottom and moored mines, usually large patrol crafts with high endurance; DMS - high-speed Minesweeper; or Destroyer (Minesweeper), this class is supposed to act with combat TFs. Some of these can pick up only moored mines, some can pick up bottom mines also, DMS and MCM can deal with magnetic and acoustic mines as well.

Many Australian minesweepers we have in the game in fact just requisitioned trawlers, fisher-boats with minesweeping arrays.

Minelayers are larger ships, cause they supposed to act far away from the bases, to lay minefields in the enemy waters, they usually carry a little bit stronger artillery set to be able to defend themselves. Large ML do not have MSW arrays cause it’s too risky for the big ships to act in the minefields, though some middle subclasses have them, their tasks are - to clear enemy defensive minefields and lay mine barriers during landings, spec.ops etc. You can easily identify ww2 ML class by several large doors in the rear (mine conveyors are on the second desk normally, on waterline level). Here are some subclasses: MM - Minelayer, fleet; MMA - Minelayer, auxiliary; MMC - Minelayer, coastal; DM - Minelayer, fast; MMF - Minelayer, fleet.

In modern navies things are even more complicated, there are about 40-60 subclasses now, the newest is Mine Countermeasures Support Ship (MCS) - provides command, control, communications, and logistics support to mine warfare operations. MCS is frequently an auxiliary-type ship, but some are also capable of operating MCM helicopters. I saw a photo of Russian ship with remark – “MCWRPT class” ?!?!? I have no idea what this one is supposed to do.

[Subchaser]

Here is IJN ML Itsukushima, mine conveyor doors are clearly visible.

[Drex]

thanks Subchaser. It sounds as if some of the classes could be used either way but like you said it might be confusing remembering which class can do what. Still if you were short on sweepers and only had MLs left, it woould be nifty to convert it to a sweeper by toggling a switch.

[Subchaser]

Still if you were short on sweepers and only had MLs left, it woould be nifty to convert it to a sweeper by toggling a switch.

Almost all minelayers we have in the game weren’t able to clear minefields in reality, may be except Hirashima class. So the switch function is questionable. I think we need more of MSW classes to be modeled in the game.

Many small but important ship classes are missing in UV. There is an interesting place in Hara memories book - when he is describing the vessels in Rabaul harbor on 29 November 1942, 100+ ships were in the harbor, majority of them were auxiliaries, sub tenders, navigation motorboats, port tugs, naval crane ships, beacon boats, repair ships, various mine warfare crafts etc. 70 auxiliary vessels in Rabaul only!!!

With many of these small but crucial ships out of the game, ridiculous things are happening in UV, lose 6-8 MSWs as IJN and you’re in trouble, you can’t clear minefields on your vital routes. In reality it could not be such a big problem, take a couple of patrol gunboats or… (I was that close to say subchasers:) ) any other light auxiliaries, trawlers are also suitable and modify them, every repair ship have equipment to modify a vessel for minesweeping, 4 or 6 days of work.

Btw I was always wondering, how those seebees and other engineers can enlarge anchorages, make waterways deeper, and do other underwater work while building up a port without specified naval engineer vessels, bulldozers can’t swim, you know. I can understand when ENG unit can build up a port to 4-5 size, 90% is the ground work, but to make port of size 6-9 you need naval engineering vessels, you have to make waterway approaches deeper or the big guys will run aground. This is especially true for Japanese, they don’t have even bulldozers… but it’s impossible to build a large port with shovel (I mean a port where you can dock a carrier).

[Drex]

It is probably well that UV (and probably WitP) conceptualize the port and airfield construction to prevent getting bogged down in a myriad of details. Still it wouldn't be onerous to required a dredging vessel to expand a port beyond, let's say , a level 6. After that the required cranes, tank farms,etc, would be assumed to be brought in.