Harwich port (London port)

[boudi]

Hi,

Why does the capture of London by paratroopers not immediately give Germany access to the port of Harwich ?

Many thanks,

[calcwerc]

Probably still an allied unit adjacent to the port? Then it wont switch if I recall right.

[boudi]

Yes you're right. But why this specific rule for this port? Are other ports affected by this exception ?

[calcwerc]

That is a general rule. Has been discussed before, but can not remember the reasoning. Personally, I thinks it makes sense that especially the attacker cant utilize a port before he controls its surroundings, and gamewise it gives the defender a bit better chances to defend against invasions. Mostly the Axis should profit from this rule.

[boudi]

A general rule? It needs to be confirmed. It seems to me that during the Battle of France you can take the ports of Le Havre and Brest, even if French or British troops are nearby ? But I could be wrong.

[boudi]

It's true that there is a difference with Le Havre. Le Havre is at the end of a hex, you can only put a ground unit on the city of Le Havre to be next to it.
For the port of London it's different. Four land hexes are contiguous with the port hex.

[boudi]

No it's not a general rule.

i take the port of Antwerp, with a belgium unit next, and the port become immediatly geman occupied, i can put a ship inside in the same turn.



There is a specific rule for London.

[calcwerc]

A general rule? It needs to be confirmed. It seems to me that during the Battle of France you can take the ports of Le Havre and Brest, even if French or British troops are nearby ? But I could be wrong.

I was probably to quick there. Surely someone with more knowledge of the mechanics can clear this up.

[Hubert Cater]

To confirm, it is a general rule, however an enemy adjacent unit will only prevent the port from switching to your control if that enemy adjacent unit is also in a city/town or other resource.

So if the adjacent UK unit to Harwich port is in Maidstone, then that particular unit in Maidstone acts to contest control of Harwich port, e.g. poth Maidstone and London are adjacent to Harwich.

Whereas the Belgian Army adjacent to Antwerp port is not in a city/town, so it will not act to contest the control of Antwerp port once the Germans capture Antwerp.

However if the Netherlands were mobilized, then any unit in the Hague would act to contest Antwerp port.

Hopefully this clarifies things,
Hubert

[boudi]

Thank you very much Hubert.

From memory the British unit is on the hex between Cambridge and London, which is a country hex. That said there may also be a British unit on Maidstone, I can't remember, it's a PBEM I can't open the game until my opponent has played.

[boudi]

Hello Hubert,

Upon opening my opponent's replay, I confirm that the only British unit present was in the hex between London and Cambridge, a field hex: not a town, not a city, not a resource.

On the other hand, at the beginning of my own turn, the port became available to Germany, as a British corps had moved to Maidstone.


View at the first second of the replay

[Hubert Cater]

Apologies and a correction, the adjacent unit is not what prevents the control of the port from switching, it is the adjacent town/city that is enemy held that prevents the control of the port from switching.

So in the London paratroop drop example, it would be Maidstone on its own that prevents the port from switching.

In the Antwerp example, there is no enemy city/town adjacent to stop the port from switching.

In either case, the units in either example play no role.

This goes back to the v1.10 version notes:

- Ports will now switch control if you've captured an adjacent resource. The only exception will be if there is another enemy resource adjacent to the port, that resource will need to be captured as well. All other port capturing rules remain the same.

[boudi]

Thank you very much Hubert for your answer.

But in this case my question becomes the opposite: Why at the beginning of my turn, after the British replay, the port became German while Maidstone was still British?

By the way, the information about the switch control of ports rules does not appear in the files :

VERSION CHANGES.txt
whatsnew.pdf

Unless I am mistaken ??

[Hubert Cater]

Thanks for the follow up and it appears we have two separate bits of code that handle the transfer of adjacent hexes, including adjacent ports.

The first is when you move into a hex, or capture a hex such as the German Paratroops landing in London, and whether or not conditions have been met to also then gain control of the adjacent port hex, while the second is an end of turn map clean up routine that scans the map and decides if certain hexes qualify for control change or not.

There is a bit of a difference between the two, essentially the second one has a bug relative to the first one, which I will fix and so that the two bits of code will be consistent with the same rules going forward.

[Hubert Cater]

Thank you very much Hubert for your answer.

But in this case my question becomes the opposite: Why at the beginning of my turn, after the British replay, the port became German while Maidstone was still British?

By the way, the information about the switch control of ports rules does not appear in the files :

VERSION CHANGES.txt
whatsnew.pdf

Unless I am mistaken ??

Apologies it appears in the War in Europe VERSION CHANGES.txt file, and likely then already in place for World at War by the time it was first released.

[boudi]

Thank you again Hubert for such a comprehensive answer !