A Few Essential UI Improvements

[EsoEs]

First of all, I understand that initial release does not equal state of the game 2 years down the road. Its easy to forget all the time and work that went into release Distant Worlds and turned it into Distant Worlds Universe. What I mean to say is, its unfair to expect a release version to be a polished game with years of development and bug fixing.

That being said, there are a couple UI issues which to me are just insane to have in a 2022 game. I was looking forward to playing Distant Worlds with an updated UI, and in a few ways its just as bad, if not worse, than 2014 DWU.

Specifically:

1) You cannot issue relevant ship/fleet orders from the Galactic map. If I want Fleet A to travel to Shipyard X, I have to find said shipyard, zoom all the way in, reselect the fleet I want, pixel hunt for the right place to click on the shipyard, then issue whatever order I want. This process gets even worse when you want some ships or a fleet to guard a specific mining base or research station, since those things are even harder to find than shipyards or planets (not impossible, just not intuitive or easy). Lacking a context menu for a solar system is a big disappointment for me. If I have a fleet or ship selected, I should be able to right click on a star system from the galactic map, find the base or planet that I want, and issue orders from that very same context menu.

2) Related to point 1, there is a hotbar row of planets and shipyards at the bottom of the screen. This is great..except I have no control over what gets added/removed to this hotbar. Even worse, again there is no context menu for issueing orders through this hotbar. Like, why cant I select my fleet, then right click on a planet or shipyard in this hotbar and issue orders for my fleet. Nono, again, I have to find my destination, zoom all the way in, reselect whatever I had selected previously, then pixel hunt for a contet menu.

3) In DW1, adding/removing specific ships to/from fleets was pretty straightforward. In current DW2, moving ships from one fleet into another is a complete micromanagement mess. I dont need to expand on this point to anyone that tries to manually manage any amount of their fleets, which begs the question, hello developers game testers did you actually play the game??

Well. With that off my chest, I remain hopeful that the game will continue to be improved and iterated upon, but I have to say, this release UI is extremely disappointing to someone who played DW1 extensively, and was looking forward to actual improvements to the UI.

Edit: I think my post was unfair to the UI. It is improved, there were a lot of good ideas included in it, its just that the things it is lacking really push my buttons since they were the same things that were lacking in DW1 and to me, the most important things to make improvements upon.

[Spidey]

If we're talking about UI improvements, there's also the ship design screen that hides a fair bit of information and offers a clunky experience with loads of scrolling, all while spending a whole lot of screen space on a nice 3d model that isn't really all that important for anything other than figuring out gun mount angles.

And there's no drag and drop, which would've been nice. It would also have been nice if we could choose which equipment is visible and which isn't, instead of either having "all stuff" or "latest stuff". And it would have been nice if the "ship equipment" was besides the possible equipment list rather than underneath it. Less scrolling, more overview.

And an argument could be made that instead of listing every piece of equipment separately, items other than weapons could be summarized as "Ion Engine x2" instead of having two separate entries. Not like it matters one iota which slot they're in. Same with armor, shields, crew quarters, and so on.

[Scott2933]

2) Related to point 1, there is a hotbar row of planets and shipyards at the bottom of the screen. This is great..except I have no control over what gets added/removed to this hotbar. Even worse, again there is no context menu for issueing orders through this hotbar. Like, why cant I select my fleet, then right click on a planet or shipyard in this hotbar and issue orders for my fleet. Nono, again, I have to find my destination, zoom all the way in, reselect whatever I had selected previously, then pixel hunt for a contet menu.

While I don't disagree with your suggestions (as a beta tester we made a lot of UI suggestions - a few of which got used) - but just to save you a little time - you can do this:

From Galaxy view:
1) Click on the fleet you want to move (from the bottom bar) to select it
2) Select a base you want to send your fleet to (from the bottom bar).
3) Double click on the title bar of the base select screen (it's tricky but you get used to it). This will zoom and center the base.
4) Hit the "back" arrow in the select view so now the Fleet is selected again.
5) Hold right click on the base and select "Move fleet..."

It's not great - but it avoids all the zooming.

Btw - one idea I proposed was a "favorites tab" and/or to customize the bottom bar (you can select which bases and fleets appear there, etc.)

[Emperor0Akim]

I repeat my favority complaint :

cycle idle ships.

1) You cannot issue relevant ship/fleet orders from the Galactic map.

yes, this was one thing that worked amazing in DWU, Right-Click on the System and you got nearly all options
your Ship had in this system, from guarding a planet, to refual at a specific location, to attack single ships.

3) In DW1, adding/removing specific ships to/from fleets was pretty straightforward. In current DW2, moving ships from one fleet into another is a complete micromanagement mess. I dont need to expand on this point to anyone that tries to manually manage any amount of their fleets

I agree, fleet management is one of the things where the physical distance of the options required to work with the system are astonishing.

Well. With that off my chest, I remain hopeful that the game will continue to be improved and iterated upon, but I have to say, this release UI is extremely disappointing to someone who played DW1 extensively, and was looking forward to actual improvements to the UI.

Edit: I think my post was unfair to the UI. It is improved, there were a lot of good ideas included in it, its just that the things it is lacking really push my buttons since they were the same things that were lacking in DW1 and to me, the most important things to make improvements upon.

I have to agree with that sentiment as well, and I am aware of the amount of work and improvements that gone into the game, but I am sad about all those seemingly small QoL options that DWU had that are gone now.

In my personal oppinion, the graphically enhanced and "condensed" GUI of DW2 is a step backwards.
It is a thing I see in a lot of software, be it Windows itself, Security Software, Websites or Games.
The more the graphic advances, the more options and user agency vanish behind a curtain of shiny buttons.

A good example is the Asset Management Tool in the company I work. After a big update, it got a lot prettier and more dynamic, but the realtime lookup when entering a search term slows down looking up items and the number of clicks to print a document changed from 3 to 11. Add in the procession time after each click and you can clearly see what great progress was made.

I think DW2 is a really good and pretty game,
but in comparison to DWU, Data Representation and Manipulation got unneccesarily more complicated.
Your important benchmark here is : Number of Clicks and Movement Distance for the Cursor.

If you are producing a monumental space government management tool, we need the ability to work with the amount
of data.
And sometimes prettier is not better.

[maggiecow]

You know you can set hotkeys, right?

Select something, hit Ctrl 1 and you bind it to the 1 key.

[EsoEs]

You know you can set hotkeys, right?

Select something, hit Ctrl 1 and you bind it to the 1 key.

Maybe my post wasn't clear, but I'm pretty sure it was extremely clear.

I understand you can select different things, hotkey them, then use "backspace" to zoom into them. My entire point was that in a 4x space game in 2022, the fact that I cannot issue orders from the galaxy view is a huge WTF for me.

[WiZz]

Yes, totally agree with first post.
We need full context menus from DW1.

From Galaxy view:
1) Click on the fleet you want to move (from the bottom bar) to select it
2) Select a base you want to send your fleet to (from the bottom bar).
3) Double click on the title bar of the base select screen (it's tricky but you get used to it). This will zoom and center the base.
4) Hit the "back" arrow in the select view so now the Fleet is selected again.
5) Hold right click on the base and select "Move fleet..."

It's not great - but it avoids all the zooming.

For me it's same as bad as constant zooming.

[Omena]

3) In DW1, adding/removing specific ships to/from fleets was pretty straightforward. In current DW2, moving ships from one fleet into another is a complete micromanagement mess. I dont need to expand on this point to anyone that tries to manually manage any amount of their fleets, which begs the question, hello developers game testers did you actually play the game??

Are you talking about physically moving ships to fleet locations? Adding or removing individual ships from fleet can be easily done with the "join/leave" fleet button. They will then automatically make their way to the new fleet.

Is the problem that there are just too many fleets? The list becomes unworkable?

Agree with the 1). I often feel like I want to zoom in pretty close to get orders in.

[EsoEs]

3) In DW1, adding/removing specific ships to/from fleets was pretty straightforward. In current DW2, moving ships from one fleet into another is a complete micromanagement mess. I dont need to expand on this point to anyone that tries to manually manage any amount of their fleets, which begs the question, hello developers game testers did you actually play the game??

Are you talking about physically moving ships to fleet locations? Adding or removing individual ships from fleet can be easily done with the "join/leave" fleet button. They will then automatically make their way to the new fleet.

Is the problem that there are just too many fleets? The list becomes unworkable?

Agree with the 1). I often feel like I want to zoom in pretty close to get orders in.

Note how I said *manually manage my fleets" then you say "automatically make their way to the new fleet".

I want you to try and move 4 Frigates from fleet A to fleet B. That's all you need to do to know what I'm talking about.

You can't multi-select ships within a fleet and give orders to them. You have to go 1 by 1. What's EVEN WORSE is that when I do select my single ship, the only option is to "leave fleet". So not only do I have to 1 by 1 click a "leave fleet" button, I then need to click again on each of the ships I want to move to then "join" a different fleet.

This problem in particular is annoying since I could move groups of ships between fleets easily with the DW1 interface, and now 8 years later the UI is actually worse.

People in this thread keep telling me "you can do it like this" and yea thats exactly my point - the way that you go about interacting with the game right now *works* but it is unintuitive, grossly time & click inefficient, and in some cases, worse than it was in the previous game.

[100thMonkey]

People in this thread keep telling me "you can do it like this" and yea thats exactly my point - the way that you go about interacting with the game right now *works* but it is unintuitive, grossly time & click inefficient, and in some cases, worse than it was in the previous game.

It seems that when it comes to UI/UX problems in games, the "annoyance treshold" varies greatly form person to person. Some people look for a workaround, and once they found one, are seemingly accepting that it is what you have to contend with. While others are more strongly annoyed by having to jump through hoops to do what could be done very simply with a better UI.

I'm definitely in the second category. In fact, even though it's true that DW:U UI was better in some respects than DW2, for me it often felt like the challenge in the game wasn't from the other empires, but rather from the UI. So much so that at one point, I stopped playing it.

DW2 has many improvements over DW:U, including the UI, obviously. But many aspects of the new UI feel unfinished, incomplete. And in some respects, it's worse than DW:U UI was. At this point, I get the same feeling with DW2 UI that I had with DW:U: that the UI is often "in the way". Transforming what should be simple tasks into unecessary complicated ones (for instance, adding or removing ships from fleets). And in a game of the scale of DW, where those tasks need to be done a great number of fimes, that makes the game a lot less enjoyable.

I know that many people want more content (more races, etc.). For my part, I hope that the numerous UI problems already identified in many threads and posts will be addressed before adding new content.

I do understand that this is an initial release. And I have no doubts that Erik and Eliott, have worked very hard on DW2 and continue to do so. I just hope that continuing to improve the UI will be a priority.

[MichaelJ007]

A simple approach would be context menus on the objects themselves.

Right click object .... and available commands are listed (guard, escort, attack, refuel or whatever).
Mouse over the command and a flyout menu shows list of availabke fleets sorted by distance.

In short: GUARD this planet with Fleet 2. Refuel at this station with Fleet 7.
------

Another approach would be for the commands on the ship/fleet to have a context sensitive list.of destinations.

E.g. if you click 'repair' it should offer you a list of space ports at which to repair, rather than seemingly picking one at random. List can be limited to 5 or 10 entries. Will be better than no choice.

-------

At galaxy view, if you have a fleet selected, would be nice if you had a context menu when right clicking a system, like (guard, refuel, repair, attack) followed by a list of appropriate targets in that system.

[100thMonkey]

A simple approach would be context menus on the objects themselves.

Right click object .... and available commands are listed (guard, escort, attack, refuel or whatever).
Mouse over the command and a flyout menu shows list of availabke fleets sorted by distance.

That would be so nice. And not only for fleets. But also for exploration ships (right clicking on a planet, and then having a menu showing the nearest exploration ships sorted by distance). Same principle could apply to military ships; for instance:

• right clicking on a fleet, having the option to add ships to it, and showing a list of nearest ships, sorted by distance

• right clicking on a pirate ship, getting an "Attack [currently selected target]" that, when clicked, would show a list of the nearest military ships AND fleets, sorted by distance

Ideally, the distance from the selected target would appear in the list of ships or fleets, beside each ship or fleet in the list. Let's say the first three entries in the list would be ships, and the fourth would be a fleet. Normally, you'd prefer the fleet, especially if the fleet is at about the same distance from the target that the individual ships are. But if the fleet is a lot farther away, then the ships would be preferable. To make that call, you have to know the distance of each (not only that one is further away than the next one, but by how much).

[MichaelJ007]

A other nice to have would be if colonies on the colony list were valid targets directly. So you could just right click the colony in the list and choose 'load troops' instead if having to double click to zoom in, then right clicking the planet itself.

[maggiecow]

You know you can set hotkeys, right?

Select something, hit Ctrl 1 and you bind it to the 1 key.

Maybe my post wasn't clear, but I'm pretty sure it was extremely clear.

I understand you can select different things, hotkey them, then use "backspace" to zoom into them. My entire point was that in a 4x space game in 2022, the fact that I cannot issue orders from the galaxy view is a huge WTF for me.

Hey, no argument here. The UI sucks. I'm with you, brother. Just pointing out the hotkeys in case anyone wasn't aware. It does make what you want to do much simpler, under the confines of the existing system, which let's face it isn't going to be fixed because there's some design mantra at work and going back to the old DW:U system is going to be a bitter pill for them to swallow. I feel your pain.

[Omena]

Note how I said *manually manage my fleets" then you say "automatically make their way to the new fleet".

I want you to try and move 4 Frigates from fleet A to fleet B. That's all you need to do to know what I'm talking about.

You can't multi-select ships within a fleet and give orders to them. You have to go 1 by 1. What's EVEN WORSE is that when I do select my single ship, the only option is to "leave fleet". So not only do I have to 1 by 1 click a "leave fleet" button, I then need to click again on each of the ships I want to move to then "join" a different fleet.

This problem in particular is annoying since I could move groups of ships between fleets easily with the DW1 interface, and now 8 years later the UI is actually worse.

People in this thread keep telling me "you can do it like this" and yea thats exactly my point - the way that you go about interacting with the game right now *works* but it is unintuitive, grossly time & click inefficient, and in some cases, worse than it was in the previous game.

Selecting and giving orders to a selection of ships should be improved, sure.

Ideally it would be like this: select 4 ships (4 clicks), leave fleet/join fleet X (1-2 clicks), give a move command to where the fleet is stationed (1 click, but probably requires you to zoom out). Total of 5-6 clicks.

Now it works like this: Select ship (1 click), leave/join fleet (2 clicks), repeat 3x times (9 clicks), select the fleet and give it a move command (2 clicks). Total of 14 clicks.

Not ideal, but also not something you end up doing so much. Personally, I find that the troop UI much more straining and very hard to handle manually.

[100thMonkey]

(...) Personally, I find that the troop UI much more straining and very hard to handle manually.

Agreed: troop management is another area that need some love. Definitely!

[EsoEs]

I know I'm repeating myself here a bit but, the more I play the more I think that the "hotbar" at the bottom of the screen should be clickable and allow for the giving of orders.

As soon as you the zoom in towards an area, you get a more contextualized view of whats in a given system such as planets, bases, etc which is great! However, I would really like to see this taken a step further, and adding the functionality to issue orders by clicking on items in this hotbar would go a long way towards streamlining the UI and reducing the constant "backspace" zoom in, "insert" zoom out, select, and re-select that is the current system.

[MichaelJ007]

Selecting and giving orders to a selection of ships should be improved, sure.

Ideally it would be like this: select 4 ships (4 clicks), leave fleet/join fleet X (1-2 clicks), give a move command to where the fleet is stationed (1 click, but probably requires you to zoom out). Total of 5-6 clicks.

Now it works like this: Select ship (1 click), leave/join fleet (2 clicks), repeat 3x times (9 clicks), select the fleet and give it a move command (2 clicks). Total of 14 clicks.

Not ideal, but also not something you end up doing so much. Personally, I find that the troop UI much more straining and very hard to handle manually.

If I need to move 10 frigates from Fleet A to Fleet B, this is what I do.

- Military Tab, Single Ship List
- Sort Order = Fleet
- Filter = Frigate
- Ctrl click or Shift Click 10 frigates in Fleet A.
- Click Join Fleet and select Fleet B

Generally though, I use fleet templates, not manually compiled fleets, so this is not something I have to do often. Only when I am doing major re-organising of my fleets.

It would be nice if the Fleet Details form below the Fleet List allowed for multi-select, and directly re-assigning ships to other fleets (instead of leave + join).

Drag and drop would also be nice