In support of past friends

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

We have all gotten to know Gmenfan, and he is one of the forum's well known names.

But life plays rough with us some days.

I can relate to where he is, and might be for a while, I have been there, and in my own case spent the better part of the 90's where he might well be today.

It ain't pretty.

I suffered great and crushing near fatal depression in my case. In my case it was due to fybromyalgia. If you hear someone claim it's a fairly tale ailment, slug them for me eh.

At any rate, I had to bury my old self. Yes the me that existed from 1995 back is dead. It was a slow death, one I don't recommend. Depression is a vicious condition.

I had to rebuild from a clean slate. Not easy. Try re starting everything from ground zero when you are in your mid 30's. Not a picnic. But I had to do it. Only way to escape the depression.

Gmenfan, I hope you beat this condition. I hope the new you is every bit as interesting as the old you. It might take a while.

I suppose everyone can realise he might not be coming back per se. He might re order his life. We can only wish him success.
But that is the route he might have to take eh.

The me of today is as different from the old me as night and day in a great many ways.
Gmenfan might not see this. But in truth I am posting this for you guys.

[Orzel Bialy]

I have a member of my family who suffered deeply from depression...and still has bouts to this day.

It is not something to be taken lightly...although it is often down-played by those who do not understand the conditions ability to severely disrupt a persons life.

Mike will need a lot of time and assistance to heal. Unfortunately, part of his healing may well include getting away from the things he did (as Les put it) as the "old Mike"...and so we may not indeed see him around the forums again.

However, as Wild Bill stated in Mike's post, we should not put undue pressure on Mike to feel that he has to come back....or respond to posts. It should be enough for us to know that he can leave the forum knowing that we care and that he is in our thoughts and prayers.

While we wish to show that we care it is just as important that we also respect his needs.

[Tbone3336]

As immense and diverse as we are as a population we all share similar life experience either directly or through family and friends and that makes us all part of a small world. I am glad that you conquered your demons and pray for Gmenfan. Even though I have never personally physically met any of you, interaction on these boards breeds an understanding of what makes you you and him him and we do know each other and can offer help and encouragement. It is a pleasure chatting with all of you.

[Bernie]

Mike, Les, Ken... Yes, depression is, possibly, the worst thing we as humans can experience. From the outside we seem "normal". To look at us you'd see nothing wrong. That we sit and have no energy, no will to "do" anything strikes some as just "being lazy". Until you've experienced it you cannot imagine the hell that goes on inside you.

Yes, I use the term "we". I've been there myself, more than once. Les, like you, I "lost" a good part of the 90's due to depression, and some of the 70's and the some of this decade as well. And, like you, I've had to rebuild myself. My depression had many, different, causes... Combat... Disaster relief after a hurricane... Burnout from 14 years as an EMT in NYC, seeing every kind of horror people can inflict upon one another... The death of my best friend, suddenly, right after Christmas... My children being kidnapped by my ex for seven years... My house burning to the ground and my wife leaving me the same day... A year homeless on the streets of NYC... Pick any one, or all of them. Call it depression, PTSD, burn-out, whatever... It lives inside you, and feeds on you, until your only two choices are to give up or fight back. Giving up is easy, fighting back means becoming some other person, not being "you" anymore.

In my case, when I fought back, I looked at it as a chance to make the kind of "me" I've always wanted to be...as I've always seen myself. I think it worked. I like who I am now, and I find I don't worry much anymore. I've learned what's important in life, and what isn't. I've learned the difference between "need" and "want", and that "want" is something that can, and often should, be put aside.

Hopefully, Mike will choose that same path, the one Les and I have taken, as I'm sure a few others of you have taken too. I know he's got good friends caring about him, and willing to help anyway they can. We can't make the choice for him, nor can we "walk the path" in his place, but we can be there to support him along it. If his path takes a turn from ours, and he finds he needs to follow a different route, I know he'll take our thoughts, prayers and best wishes for future happiness with him.

[Capt. Pixel]

Even though your comments were not directed towards me, I've found them very helpful in coping with my current situation.

Married to a spouse with severe PTSD, being jobless for an obscenely extended period of time and going through the process of discarding my career of 20 years, forced to 're-invent' myself has been a trying time to say the least.

But your comments concerning your experiences and concern for Mike's current situation have helped me immensely.

Thank you all, very much.

Michael

[Frank W.]

mhh...reading all this is for me surprising, because you don´t know the ppl. in the internet very good and they are far away. but i feel with most of you because i have myself some trouble in this dircetion. bot not as worse as others perhaps.

it´s surprising i´m not that alone.

i making now a psychotherapy w/ talking and such but doubt that it helps much before my personnal situation gets better.

i´m often tired, confused, have no energy, forget important things and such. sometimes i have depression phases in that i think " it all has no sense " ( if you know what i mean ).

if anyone have further detailed tips what could help i would be thankful

[Frank W.]

and: what is "ptsd", a "emt", and "fybromyalgia" ??

thanx.

[mogami]

Originally posted by Frank W.
and: what is "ptsd", a "emt", and "fybromyalgia" ??

thanx.

Hi, "fybromyalgia" is a condition where the person experiances severe pain all the time for no apparent reason.
There is some thought that Gulf War 1 veterans contracted it from taking the anti nerve gas pill.

I'm surprised to see the number of us with some type of problem.
Some of you may know I don't leave my house. I go months at a time. I don't really get depressed in the way I once did. (Matrix keeps my mind very occupied with SPWaW, UV and testing WITP.
Plus I have my two nephews to keep me amused.
We just all have to stick together.

[Bernie]

Originally posted by Frank W.
and: what is "ptsd", a "emt", and "fybromyalgia" ??

thanx.

PTSD is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or what they used to call "being shell shocked" It can happen anytime the human mind is forced to face things beyond it's normal comprehension. Examples would be the medic who takes care of dozens of victims at a major disaster (such as during 9/11), an 18 year-old farm boy suddenly finding himself drafted and on the front lines, watching his buddies being slaughtered.

EMT is Emergency Medical Technician. In some parts of the country EMT's and Paramedics are considered the same, in others, such as New York where I worked, an EMT is a step below paramedic, but a step above someone trained in advanced first aid. I was in the middle of training for my paramedic certification when I dropped out, two weeks after unsucessfully trying to save an 87 year-old woman who jumped from a 3rd floor window, embedded herself in the roof of a garden shed, and thought I was her son come to visit her as she died.

Fibromyalgia is best explained by this link to the Fibromyalgia Network Database.
Fibromyalgia Network: Basics

[BlueLavender]

Les, you are correct...and I know how it feels

Right now, I probably have the same situation as Gmenfan, plus the Paranoid disorder.

I fully understand and respect Gmenfan wish to retreat from the forum. It's hard. I also retreated from the forum and online game myself (Jess , if you read this... I'm sorry, I just couldn't continue...I acknowledge your winning). I'm back again just to write a token of respect for Gmenfan.

The worst part is you know you have , yet you cannot control it. It's maddening, especially when it affects the person that I love badly.

I'm still struggling right now. When I'm ready to go online game again, I hope the community is still here..

Gmenfan, if you read this, you are also in my prayer.

from the fellow sufferer.

BlueLavender

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Mogami was fairly on the mark with fybromyalgia description in brief.

To add, it destroys you slowly. No it is not fatal. Some might wish it was I suppose.
It lessens you weakens you erodes what you originally thought nothing of.

Today I walk to the mall with a cane. Not because I am in need of it routinely, but after the forth block of walking, my energy just disappears like mist. Without the cane, I have trouble making it back home.

I have a major hassle with dedication level. For those that know me, picture never being able to play more than a turn of Steel Panthers at a time. I just get through a turn and need to take a break. It's not that I am tired, nope, just have trouble with the drive. So playing the game for me, means play a turn, post a couple of forum messages, get up do a bit of housework, sit down play a turn, repeat cycle.
You could apply that to nearly any action.

Fybromyalgia is a condition of the nervous system and the soft tissues essentially. Always there, never really gone. If I push the margin and force myself to go past my normal boundary, there IS a price.
One day in the workshop no problem. Second day might be lucky, 3rd day and odds are next week is a write off though.

When I went through the endless hassle of arranging my disability pension, they asked me if I could do anything. I said yes, anything, for 15 minutes. But work, I said no, nothing at all. An employer expecting me to show up is expecting the undoable.

Sadly, I had plans to run a business. That was the most annoying part of the hearings. Trying to get the mindless bureaucrats to realise, if I had the energy for work, I would be applying it to my business, hence I had no interest in working for anyone.
I have a working business plan and everything. Had to walk away from a very promising buisiness as a cabinetmaker.

I know of more or less a good handful of persons that have fybromyalgia. Often the hardest person to convince is the person that has it. To look at me, you see absolutely nothing wrong, nothing at all. I can still do almost anything, just not longer than 15 minutes. Then I come to a crashing halt.

It took me 2 years to realise something had happened to me and admit it. It took me 5 years to accept I wasn't a worthless lazy bum. It took my all of the 90's basically to say Les it's alright, you didn't make this decision, it was forced on you, you may build a model today if you have the energy, you don't need permission.

I basically punished myself for almost a decade, by refusing to let myself enjoy any of my hobbies.

I was brought up in a home where my father missed only 3 days in a career that spanned 43 years!!! I wanted to be like dad, not the worthless dead beats of society. It was a tough pill to swallow, that I would never achieve that desire.

I have but one child, and it's all because one is all I can raise responsibly. Fybromyalgia stole from me there too. I had to willingly walk away from having more. Wouldn't it be nice if more could act responsibly eh.

As you can see, you almost certainly know someone with this condition they have called the condition of the 90's. I have no idea what causes it. There is lots of research concerning it though. But cure, no a cure comes from accepting it is there, and deciding you can either get over it and learn to live with it, or end up an unfortunate death from depression.

I decided to just get over it.

If tomorrow they annouce an iron clad cure, I might look into it.

But please people, if you know anyone that has fybromyalgia, DO NOT suggest ways they can reclaim their old selves, help them to build their new self. There old self is gone. Insisting on strategies to reclaim it, will only depress them further.

I hope this has in some way helped someone.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Needed to add this to add a chuckle to the otherwise somber thread.

Guys, when dealing with depression or any condition that deals with whjat we store between our ears be on guard for pills they offer as fix alls.

Yes I suppose it will work for some, and in severe cases my advice might be unrealisable.

But the psychiatric profession has no friend in me.

I was tried on this pill and then that pill. I was given this drug and that drug. Pills chemicals drugs, they won't always fix everything. And often the person left after the "fixing" won't be someone that you will enjoy being.

In my case, I was given anti depressants for depression. But they often make you sleepy. Well trouble is depression makes you hide in bed and you end up sleeping.
My depression was because I felt useless. Not surprising, being in bed all day doing nothing, does little to make you fell worthwhile.

So nothing was really happening in my favour. So we went to the next pill and the next pill.

Well the phrase "side side effects may be" is a term you want to look at seriously.
Nausea is not much, and head aches well no fun of course, dry mouth can be fixed with a glass of water handy I guess. Diareha hmm glad I have not experienced that one.
My personal favourite though, and one I had to much effect from is "sexual side effects". Ok that is your cue to laugh now guys hehe. Go ahead I won't object.

Picture yourself acting like your wife/girlfriend increasingly. No not a shift of preference, more like becoming a male lesbian I guess is the best way to think of it.
It was really unnerving to realise I was critiquing women on the way they wore their clothes, and increasingly actually getting it right hehe.

Spent enough time subjected to this, that when I say I know what you are thinking to a woman I MEAN IT hehe.

Well let me say, I am a guy again, but hmm it took me 2 years to fully become a proper male ******* again hehe.

So guys, watch out for them pills they give you eh.

[Paul Vebber]

Depression is surpising common in any group. Some studies show as many as 1 in 3 people have at least "chronic depressed mood" if not full blown acute depression some time in there life. My Mother has battled it (together with OCD) from near suicidal states to seeming normalcy most of her nearly 70 years.

I was lucky to have had only a few relatively minor bouts of about 2 years duration each with it, not requiring medication, but seemed to be "the end of the world" at the time. One lead me to almost flunk out of college, another to a major career transition, and a third that, given a less understanding job situation, could have cost me a job.

In all three cases the formula that got me through it was rediscovering my faith in God, realizing that I could not "get out of it" all by myself, but had to rely on those around me who loved me to pull me up out of the hole, and have faith that it would eventually occur. I also found getting alcohol, caffeine and even chocolate out of my diet elped "keep my head clear". Treating it with drugs seemed to cover up the symptoms, but make me "foggy" and less focused on turning things around. They helped my Mother a lot, but she dealt with with a far more severe form than I did.

The first time I did not even realize I had battled moderate depression, the second episode seemed the worst as it makes you realize the first time was not an isolated case and how many more times in my life would I have to deal with this?

The third time I realized that it was something that could be beaten and identifying the onset early, and "circling the wagons" (spiritually and with the help of my wife in particular) to keep it from getting beyond mild symptoms, it would not have qualified symptomatically as "real depression" but knowing "how it felt" I knew it could have.

I no longer fear it and it as almost seemed like lacking the fear of it keeps it from snowballing. I have identified circumstances in my life to avoid that contributes to starting the "slide down" and avoid them. WIll I slide down again, unfortunately its probably in my genes, but having come to terms with it and having an arsenal of support and coping skills, that very fact seems to keep it at bay.

Anyway, I am blessed with only having to have dealt with periodic and not too severe bouts, unlike my Mother who has been the opposite of me, only have brief respites from it through her life.

But she has made it through for nearly 70 years and it has not beaten her, though it came close a few times. Faith that no matter how bad it gets, there are ways out of the hole, always provides hope.

You will get through it, if you hold onto that hope, but it may not be without a heavy cost as Les has described.

We are all pulling for you.

[Irinami]

I guess it's "outing" time.

Like Frank W., I feel forlorn and lost sometimes. Quite a lot, actually. I feel like whatever I do, what the heck does it matter? Like Paul Vebber, I know deep down that it matters to The Big Guy, but having grown up with that knowledge it's hard to fall back on that sometimes.

About twice a year it blows out of proportion. I'm not quite 23, and I've lost 2 jobs from it--well, rather it proved the extra reasoning for me to leave the jobs. (The first had some health risks, the second was depression combined with the death of a friend closer than I realized.)

You just don't care. What will it change? If you're ten minutes late to work, so what? Why be polite--it doesn't matter. So you just missed the bowl and poured milk all over the counter, so what? Even, so you just ran face-first into the door and your nose is pouring down your face, so what? It can (rarely) get so deep that the prospect of death or life really doesn't matter to you. Thank God the realization of that snapped me out of it last time.

Maybe that latter is why I'm fascinated by WWII, and the Japanese and the SS in particular. Like... I sometimes wonder, if I'd been born in those places, those times, would I have fallen into the trap of their thinking? How easy it would have been to turn into a monster!

In short, I understand the downard spiral. I've been on the first ring, which feels a little like being carefree. I've fallen through the pit of immobility, and even once to the first bottom (because the bottom always falls out), where you start to destroy yourself and your relationships like the virus you feel you are. If I don't understand what others are and have gone through, then I've at least been in the "same tank, different seat," so to speak.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all of you, and my PM box is always open.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Not quite 23 Irinami? Oh man if I could be 23 again

Only thing bothering me back then, was the girls say no to a dance to often at the bar

Take heart man, life seems to insist on making the years 20- 25 a deliberate nuisance. It passes.

Save yourself for the wonderful hassels of turning 30 and wondering am I am adult now and not just a young adult
Or more recent for me, 40 plus, and "should I try doing it twice in one day" .

The joys of not getting to play the game, because the yard needs work, the wife needs you to get kids, kids new shoes, school supplies, RRSPs, family size vehicle, weight gain, hair loss, afternoon naps, hating modern music, cute looking grannies (my personal favourite), and all the other wonderful things about being part of the older crowd hehe.

[Caranorn]

Hi folks,

I never post in here and only irregularly read these boards. But it was both encouraging and saddening to read these posts. I for one have been in a serious depressive condition for some 5 years now. The same day I dropped out of college my brother committed suicide. When I got back home I kept looking for work for months, only to quit the job again everytime after at most two months. Always being on the lookout for a job for several years but never with enough confidence in myself to last (or pulling the emergency break and quitting before I'd kill myself). Last year I was in therapy and finally quit that because at the time I just could not handle the added pressure (best not to think about it it seemed). I was obviously wrong and plan to start another therapy soon (and try medication maybe, I hate the idea but I can't go on like this). But everything seems so complex right now I can't imagine improving. And if I do, what will I be doing with the rest of my life?

Anyhow, I feel with the rest of you and understand your thoughts (even though I've never been in the military, actually some events in an anti war rally this year worsened my situation, being brutalised by police does not enhance one's self esteem).

I also agree that once you go through the healing process you might not return to these boards. I also agree that that should not be a factor in your decision, gaming is a hobby (few could live from it, I'd like to but...), in the end you need more to keep on living (being an atheist doesn't help depression, no gods to guide you and death does not seem inviting at all (though I guess that is good)).

Good luck all.

Marc aka Caran... in no danger but really down at the bottom

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

In regards to comments concerning faith.

Hmm I have always thought of "god" as a buddy. A buddy that will always listen. And that is what counts. And that is perhaps all we require.

Through my trying times, I found the best healing was being with people that didn't do anything more than give you a reason to smile. Nothing more than that.

This can work for a person of faith or it can work for a total aetheist. Some of us need the person from a higher place, some just want a friendly ear.
But in the end, most of us just need someone to be there.

Not so much a helping hand, as a hand up if we sway or stumble.

For some of us, we sway for quite a while too.

It's not easy beating depression, and it doesn't do us much good if we don't actually do it ourselves.
Some rail against our adversities. I have often heard people comment "why would god let this happen?".
I must say, I don't blame god for any of my life. I don't ask him to magically make any of it go away. I don't always pretend there is any secret hidden purpose. Some times **** happens is all you will ever get out of something bad.
I look back at the past years, and wonder, if I could change any of it, would I?

In spite of how much I have hurt at some times though, the answer is actually no.
It has been a real bitch getting to this part of my life, but nope, damnit I made it this far, and I did it by clawing my way here hehe.
I wouldn't mind being 5 million bucks richer, but I like who I am, even when I occasionally get mad at the aggravations.

I have looked back, and wondered where would I be if my health had not crapped out on me?
Hmm running a business, likely divorced (I used to be a self centered jerk), and my eyes would not be as open to the world as they now are (I had to learn a few truths along the way).

It's been a real hell getting here though, but I thank all the people that held me up during the rough parts.

[Bernie]

Caranorn, being an atheist does not mean "going it alone". There are a number of non-traditional "religions" out there that might still appeal to you, and that you might benefit from. One I'd suggest looking into is called RSI (Religious Science International). Their foundation is in science, and the belief that what some call "God" is in fact a set of natural laws that apply to all things, the way that other scientific laws, such as gravity, apply. It's a bit more involved than that of course, but might be worth at least looking at. Their web site is at: www.rsintl.org

While I don't agree with all of what they say, reading through their information did make a few things go "click" for me. Maybe there's something there that will "click" for you, and pique your curiosity.

Please don't misconstrue this as an attempt to "convert" you, or "save" you, far from it! I present it to you as simply an unconventional source of information not typically found in mainstream science. One that sometimes makes you go, "Hmmmm...!"