Central Powers Strategic Dance

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Just my thoughts...and its all true. You got to take down Serbia to break that ball and chain!

[Zarevic]

Yes, maybe...

Btw, have you changed side and now working for Berlin rather than Entente?

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Hi old friend!
I work for both sides.

[Jazon]

Hi,
maybe off topic...does anybody actually win as CP in multiplayer? Like...it just seems impossible to win as CP...anybody experienced that?
Jazon
PS
Love the Pic! xD It is excatly as it looks!

[Bavre]

I won 8 of my last 9 CP matches.
In my experience the keys are a quick powerful attack on Serbia and overall extreme aggression in the early phase.
The size of the bite you take out of the Entente before the better trenches has an immense influence on the rest of the game.

[Tanaka]

Hi,
maybe off topic...does anybody actually win as CP in multiplayer? Like...it just seems impossible to win as CP...anybody experienced that?
Jazon
PS
Love the Pic! xD It is excatly as it looks!

Several of us were wondering the same thing lately. Both myself and OCB have had a very difficult time with them. Russia is very overpowering...

[Tanaka]

I won 8 of my last 9 CP matches.
In my experience the keys are a quick powerful attack on Serbia and overall extreme aggression in the early phase.
The size of the bite you take out of the Entente before the better trenches has an immense influence on the rest of the game.

Interesting. The extreme aggression is very difficult to do for very long. Any of these games on YouTube?

[Bavre]

Unfortunatelly no. I talked about it briefly with OCB a while ago, but we have not come around to do it yet. He's busy in a bunch of other matches (check them out here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwnsBU ... /playlists ) and I just started WaW ELO.
Also all my AAR matches are either exploit tests or feature me as Entente.

[Bavre]

On second thought, there kind of is one by proxy you could say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8-HmbT ... egicArcana

It's a modded game between mdsmall (CP) and OCB (Entente).
Immidiately before that game mdsmall and I had a couple matches and some long talks about game mechanics and strategy. Some of the stuff he did to OCB there are moves I did in our previous rounds.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

On second thought, there kind of is one by proxy you could say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8-HmbT ... egicArcana

It's a modded game between mdsmall (CP) and OCB (Entente).
Immidiately before that game mdsmall and I had a couple matches and some long talks about game mechanics and strategy. Some of the stuff he did to OCB there are moves I did in our previous rounds.

Well now. I'll be damned...

[Tanaka]

On second thought, there kind of is one by proxy you could say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8-HmbT ... egicArcana

It's a modded game between mdsmall (CP) and OCB (Entente).
Immidiately before that game mdsmall and I had a couple matches and some long talks about game mechanics and strategy. Some of the stuff he did to OCB there are moves I did in our previous rounds.

Thanks I do remember mdsmall doing very well as CP in that game will have to go back and review...wonder if anything was changed in patches since though?

[Jazon]

On second thought, there kind of is one by proxy you could say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8-HmbT ... egicArcana

It's a modded game between mdsmall (CP) and OCB (Entente).
Immidiately before that game mdsmall and I had a couple matches and some long talks about game mechanics and strategy. Some of the stuff he did to OCB there are moves I did in our previous rounds.

Hi!
Thanks, I will definitely watch this, to see how he did that. Maybe there is some Prussian sorcery over there, spells from Clausewitz magic book that would help me win:) I agree that for CP Serbia is the key, and also speed is the key. However I guess it requires extremely well micromanaging of your forces. Anyway i will watch the video.
Cheers all!
Jazon

[Bavre]

I could also give a quick demonstration of the opening phase, e.g. 1914 only. I can do that basically on autopilot now and it should be enough to get the gist of it. A full game however is at the moment unfortunatelly not possible.

[Jazon]

Hi Bavre!
Yes, If it is possible to show first stage of your CP moves? I am really interested Of course later stage of the game will develop depending on situation, so there is no point looking into. One more question, how do you play Turkey? To be honest I always ponder what to do with Ottomans. They are too weak to take over Egypt(at least till they got artillery), and fighting British in Mesopotamia or Russian in Caucasus always go into stalemate. How do you deal the Ottomans?
Cheers
Jazon

[Bavre]

Game's up, PW: test

About Turkey: hit the Serbs hard, get Bulgaria in asap. Without the rail link Turkey is lost.
Also the Bulgarian units are very useful here. As a minor they can serve under any HQ of a major on the same side and as a german minor they share Germany's tech. So say there's trouble in Gaza, rail in the Bulgarians and attach them to the turkish HQ, maybe bring their cannon and fighter too, and the Brits are not gonna have a fun time.

It is also worth noting, that the first arabian partisan hexes don't get active until Nov 1915 iirc. Makes it much easier to secure the coast early on.

And about the test game: I'd strongly advise to not go on a serious offensive in Galicia with your Russians, maybe just get the oilfield for the NM trigger. You'll be hanging on for dear live in the east within a few turns!

[Jazon]

I am ready for test!

微信图片_20220622233749.jpg (125.67 KiB) Viewed 1201 times

[Bavre]

Test concluded, by Nov 14 Russia is almost at 40% NM, their army has ceased to be an effective fighting force. Balkan is almost done, too.

A few explanations:

One very important factor for turning a rush into an avalanche is HQ xp (the other is the NM of the target). To understand the XP mechanics better, I'd recommend to go to options->advanced options and switch the XP display to numbers. Does not look as pretty as the graphics, but is way more informative. But on to the actual mechanics: everytime a unit wins a fight (fewer losses than it's opponent), the winners HQ get 0.1 XP while the losers HQ loses 0.1 . As Germany starts with better units and HQs, it's quite feasible to get a lot of easy fights early on and "feed" your top generals during a rush. And the effect of high XP HQs, especially if they're high rating ones like Hindenburg or von Hutier, is dramatic! If you're successful enough, your troops may even get the strength to bruteforce the higher trenches, effectively doubling the initial movement phase and gain a lot of ground.

And gaining a lot of ground in Russia has another very useful side effect: the NM drain.
Every town of a major power has an NM value attached to it, that you can see on the map (minors always have 0). Should someone conquer that town, then this amount of NM will be transfered from its original owner to its conqueror every round. And stuff in Poland is worth quite a lot, that's why my german NM was growing despite the blockade.

@Jazon:
Also don't try to brute force the western front! The result was just a lot of dead french and another german super HQ, as you just can't get decent odds there in the early game.
In the Baltics remember that I can "see" your ships with my scout sub, so be very careful there.
And as I already said in an earlier post: when targeted by a Russia first DON'T ATTACK GALICIA! I tell that to literally everyone before the match and no one, seriously no one, has ever listened (or survived).

[Jazon]

Hi Bavre!
Thank you for your test run, let's just finish it just right there (I got some download ERROR anyway). Thank you for explaining about HQs, I knew that they get better with every win or kill, but I didn't know defeated side HQ will loose their XP!!!
Well I need to admit I didn't listen about Galicia and France. In my experience, If Germans are advancing at some front, other place need to keep war of attrition. Thus you can force Germans either to disperse their attacking force by sending reinforcements to other place, or by causing looses force them to buy and replace units instead of investing in Tech or new units. This strategy worked in my last Multiplayer pretty good, but turned out be totally inaccurate countering your attack.
It is very hard mentally, just to keep receiving punches in face and do not respond. Although the only rational strategy I guess...but how long can Russia defend the furious German attack? In the West, if Germans do not attack Belgium there is no way you can make any relieve, the front is just too narrow. What are other options? By the time you might be actually able to send some forces to the Balkans, Serbia is dead, and what is worse, Bulgaria join CPs.
And, how in this situation can Entente gain experienced HQ? Maybe attacking Belgium by Entente is the answer...I don't know. One think I learned: If you are getting beaten, conserve manpower.
Bavre, you showed exceptional skill in this presentation. Maybe you consider changing your avatar to this:

mackansen.jpg (170.52 KiB) Viewed 1121 times

General Mackensen appearance reflects what you just did to Russians in this trial

[Bavre]

The initiative in this early movement phase is literally the one big thing the CP has going for them, the size of the gains they make there has a huge influence on the rest of the game. They just need to get going, a timid CP is a dead CP, as they will just be smothered over time.
As Entente you can't really get significant HQ XP before the better cannons, unless the CP player does something weird. I only mentioned this because your aggression and against the odds counterattacks gave me lot's of additional easy wins in the first few turns, making the situation a lot worse overall.
Early Entente gameplay vs a serious CP attack is just containment and delay. Slow them down and conserve your power.
Unlike in the WW2 games there's no penalty here for sending western units to Russia, so maybe send the BEF over to help out.
The dangerous thing about a Russia first is, that the western front is as you said very narrow and defensible and needs only a few guys. Therefore Russia can be hit really hard, really fast with a ton of stuff.
And on the Balkans: if you see Germans show up in significant numbers, just run for the mountains. You will still die, but it takes longer. I don't think it's possible to hold there. Also a french unit without HQ and in low supply will just die down there.

[Robotron]

So from what I gathered, correct me if I'm wrong, the only realistic way for CP to win in a match between experienced players is to go "Russia first", right?