41 GC- Panzer divisions on refit in AR not swapping out

[M60A3TTS]

In a 41GC that I have posted on the forums with MSAG, I have panzer divisions that are set to refit in the AR, have near 100% of their strength, but none of the damaged tanks are being swapped out. This has been going on for a few weeks now.



Can someone tell me what saves would be needed to look at this? We can't really continue the game if my broken tanks are not replaced.

[M60A3TTS]

ok, so apparently the newly arriving panzer replacement battalions are taking the equipment stored in the pools, leaving nothing at times for refitting formations.

[Stamb]

they are also not losing fatigue

[loki100]

Something clearly wrong there.

There are oddities in that the different types of Pzr division prioritise different tanks but these have what they need and just don't repair.

There was a bug that was sorted for the current test beta around axis units in the AR not regaining morale (Soviet units were fine) and this looks like a variant on that?

So one solution would be for you both to use the test exe (Joel has said in the past its ok for us to share this with non-beta players simply as its not easy to run multiple copies). The other might be to move them to the map at a NSS, that might shake them into action - it certainly solved the NM gain problem

[M60A3TTS]

I thought damaged equipment was supposed to go into the transit pool in this case so then the division would be short equipment. Here it just sits so the tank TOE says 100%, I don't need any more stuff so give it to the battalions even though half of the division is actually broken. And I have 11 more replacement battalions due to come in and will likewise potentially grab all the new production, forcing me to commit a lot of them to the divisions before I had intended.

[loki100]

agree, the reserve should clear out damaged stuff and replace it. it should also speed up the process by which it gets repaired.

Its just possible (but I don't think its the case) that low equipment pools stop the process as it can't replace. But going by Joel's explanations, the shedding of damaged elements falls into a different part of the logistics phase to simple reinforcement (this is one of the reasons for odd bits of rail usage)

So my suspicion is you have a variant of the bug that was stopping axis units in the reserve gaining morale. This wasn't easy to spot as its rare for the axis player to have a rebuild from scratch. The beta exe solves the morale issue, it *might* solve the damage repair/replace issue. if not, I'd shift the Pzr division to a NSS, on map I'm seeing damaged elements repair or get removed much as I'd expect so I think its a reserve issue.

[Stamb]

i also noticed that Soviet rifle divisions that sit on top of a depot in refit mode, even for a two turns, are very unwilling to give out damaged rifle squads
maybe it is also because of a constant lack of manpower, but the closer they get to full TOE the less elements get swapped

[M60A3TTS]

agree, the reserve should clear out damaged stuff and replace it. it should also speed up the process by which it gets repaired.

Its just possible (but I don't think its the case) that low equipment pools stop the process as it can't replace. But going by Joel's explanations, the shedding of damaged elements falls into a different part of the logistics phase to simple reinforcement (this is one of the reasons for odd bits of rail usage)

So my suspicion is you have a variant of the bug that was stopping axis units in the reserve gaining morale. This wasn't easy to spot as its rare for the axis player to have a rebuild from scratch. The beta exe solves the morale issue, it *might* solve the damage repair/replace issue. if not, I'd shift the Pzr division to a NSS, on map I'm seeing damaged elements repair or get removed much as I'd expect so I think its a reserve issue.

ok, I'll haul the divisions out and put them in Berlin to see if that triggers anything.

[loki100]

Stamb - on map, feasibly a lack of rail cap can mean stuff remains in the unit so that is slightly different to this instance. The whole point of the reserve is to side-step the on map constraints and I'm pretty sure that damaged stuff goes into the transit pools promptly. But I guess that a near 100% unit is low on the list for reinforcements so may hang on to equipment it has.

I've just done a test of moving a division with some damaged elements to the pool:



So its just arrived (turn later, it may have picked up more damage going to a suitable hex), has picked up a few reinforcement elements but no repairs:



so one full turn in the reserve, should have improved and ...



No change, so the bug is still in the current test beta.

M60 if moving to the map doesn't work you could try dropping the % TOE, in the reserve that is a one turn transition but of course it may take out the repaired stuff ...

[AlbertN]

Is it possible there is some problem in the Axis Reserve routines though, since presently not even the Morale gains are working?

[M60A3TTS]

Is it possible there is some problem in the Axis Reserve routines though, since presently not even the Morale gains are working?

Not sure Albert.

So MSAG and I went back and forth advancing through a few turns.

2nd Panzer Division with all it's broken equipment came to the map and went to Berlin and set to refit.

The result you can see is a few of the broken vehicles get repaired. The trouble is the division has 114 authorized medium tanks and 50% of that is 57. Where we are headed is that this division will end up with some combination of 57 ready and damaged tanks. I can then set the TOE to 100% but then after the new equipment arrives, we're back to the same problem, namely the damaged elements are still there in some quantity. I need these divisions to dump their damaged equipment, not just swap out a handful each week and then stop when the TOE hits 100%.

[Jango32]

I've noticed that damaged elements are very hard to replace, either on the map or in the reserve. Two turns of on-map refitting with infantry divisions and while the total TOE% percentage has reached 100, there are still about 20% damaged elements that are just not getting swapped out.

[AlbertN]

I am somehow not surprised. I remember long ago I was trying to refit Panzers in Poland and Romania and it was not happening.
If it does not happen even in Reserve or Berlin there may be some lingering problem.

In general I'd expect a quicker repair of stuff as well - especially in Germany.
Especially at the rate things get damaged in WITE. Moving a few hexes and a chunk of tanks gets damaged and then is stuck there for long.

[Joel Billings]

Can someone give me some saves for this to look at?

[M60A3TTS]

No problem, Joel. What kind of save do you want?

[Joel Billings]

Ideally a prelog save before the German turn where you can tell me what German units are in the reserve and are not repairing their vehicles and/or not swapping out as you would expect.

[M60A3TTS]

Ideally a prelog save before the German turn where you can tell me what German units are in the reserve and are not repairing their vehicles and/or not swapping out as you would expect.

I've asked MSAG to post a save here for his turn 30 just before ending it. The 2nd Panzer Division as the only refitting armored unit in the reserves has 114 Panzer IIIJs in ready and damaged states, mainly damaged. Newly arriving or existing panzer replacement battalions are all in a ready, non-refit state.

[MSAG]

Hi,
Save attached. Just before end of the turn.

[Joel Billings]

Ok, the save shows me that damaged elements are not getting fixed and Gary will take a look at this in the near future.

[Rosencrantus]

Is there an eta for a fix for damaged elements not repairing in the reserve TB? I'm starting to send weak formations into my reserve with lots of damaged elements.