German Atlantic Wall

[Taifun]

Hi Generals,

In one of my games the German Atlantic Wall wasn't build. There were no Allied units in 1942 in French soil but there were 3 in 1941.

[Jkap]

Are you referring to the Atlantik Wall? The Westwall is automatically there when the game starts in every campaign. Seems it could be a bug and maybe your opponent had units in France the turn before but I'm not sure. As a sidenote, some players are sneaky and land an AA at a French Port just to deny the event which is strange because a landing like that would do the opposite and encourage the Germans to improve their defences. Kind of like the numerous times it happened throughout ww2. Maybe that could get changed in a new update and the event will fire from the 1st of Jan 42' provided no Allied units occupy the territories where they need to spawn.

[BillRunacre]

Were all the conditions met as per the Strategy Guide at the time, including that France has surrendered:

DE 624 – Germany: Deploy Coastal Guns on the Atlantic Wall?
- Event fires: On the 1st January 1942 providing France has surrendered, London and Bristol are in Allied hands, Brest, Lille, and Le Havre are in Axis hands, and there are no Allied units within 10 hexes of Paris.
- Cost of accepting: 150 MPPs (at 50 MPPs a turn for 3 turns).
- Yes: Germany deploys Coastal Gun units near Calais, Amiens, Le Havre and Brest.
- No: Nothing.
- Note: Any unit currently in the destination hexes near Calais, Amiens, Le Havre and Brest will be moved to a nearby hex so that the Coastal Gun can be deployed in place. They may temporarily disappear, but will return.

Also, did the Axis definitely say YES to doing so?

[Taifun]

- Event fires: On the 1st January 1942 providing France has surrendered, London and Bristol are in Allied hands, Brest, Lille, and Le Havre are in Axis hands, and there are no Allied units within 10 hexes of Paris.


This means that if in December 1941 the Allies land a single unit in French soil the Atlantic Wall event won't fire? This seems gamely and weird. If the Germans were to build the Atlantic Wall an Allied landing would only hasten its completion.

[BillRunacre]

You are right, it's because the scripts involved are all very complicated because it is not just the presence of Allied units that can mess things up, but also if the Axis have units already in place where the Coastal Guns are due to deploy.

Without these scripts, the Coastal Guns could deploy inland, which obviously isn't right, but with them, Allied players can game the system to prevent the Coastal Guns from deploying. It is a difficult one to resolve for sure!

I will try to take another look at it in case I can improve on the current system. This does already have some variable timing in place so that the Allies cannot be sure to know exactly when to land in order to mess things up, and it might be that increasing the variability is one option.

[petedalby]

Why not just delete the last criteria?

"and there are no Allied units within 10 hexes of Paris"

Would that make it easier to fix?

[BillRunacre]

Good point, I might consider a variation on this, as narrowing down the options for gamey Allied moves seems like a way forward.

[DavidDailey]

1

[DavidDailey]

1

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I remember that Baltic thread. Go back to it and read it. It wasn't just Taifun that stated that the Baltic Gambit was a legitimate non-gamey strategy. There was a few others including I who explained what measures could be done by Germany to the thwart that Allied operation.

We are talking apples and oranges here.

Landing an Allied unit at the time of the DEC to stop the building of the Atlantic Wall with no other reason is a gamey near eXploit, just like a UK/Commonwealth attack on the Japanese spawning islands.

The Baltic Gambit is a strategy. It depends on the Germans not adequately protecting Kiel, Copenhagen, Hamburg and vicinity.

About 4 of us tried to explain our opinion and rational to you. You should go back and read that thread again.

No need to just single out Taifun who had explained is opinion on the Baltic Gambit. Might as well mention everyone else on that thread that had the same opinion on the matter.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Yep, had a dude suicide British unit to undo the Atlantic Wall. Could make it 3 units to prevent Wall from being built. Many options, you're smart guys...

-American Legend