Thinking...Fog of War is too heavy. Surprise contact

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

There will all kinds of spies in the U.S. Civil War. Information spread fast about oncoming Armies, build-ups, etc. While playing, having the entire opponent map area in the dark, seems too heavy. The "surprise combat" might be need toned down. Moving adjacent is still quite a distance to take a pop. Single brigades on defense shouldn't be getting that big of an edge. Maybe I should just turn *Off FOW

[Bobo2025]

I struggled with this a lot in the other SC games where the idea of a Corps or Army sized unit wandering into a surprise attack seemed frankly silly. At this scale, with this technology it seems a lot more reasonable to have this mechanic where your army is basically caught on the March. The problem is without stacking it is hard to recon very well and as best I could tell Scouts 1 technology did nothing to help me.

[dhucul2011]

I mentioned this in the BETA as well.

I realistically know that a city has an enemy unit. I should be able to move my infantry unit adjacent to that city without getting absolutely hammered.

Maybe a reduction in action points but not a surprise attack reducing my corps from 10 to 4.....

[Patrat]

If use your Cavalry for spotting, you won't get hammered. That's what's Cavalry role is in the game and in real life.

Just look how nervous Lee got during the Gettysburg campaign when Stuart went on a joyride with the Confederate Cavalry and left Lee blind. The Confederate edge in Cavalry recon, was a big factor in them winning a lot of the early battles.

I think the game as is, forces you to use your Cavalry properly, or risk getting hammered.

I always try to preserve my horse soldiers for recon. I try to never leave them in an exposed position.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

If use your Cavalry for spotting, you won't get hammered. That's what's Cavalry role is in the game and in real life.

Just look how nervous Lee got during the Gettysburg campaign when Stuart went on a joyride with the Confederate Cavalry and left Lee blind. The Confederate edge in Cavalry recon, was a big factor in them winning a lot of the early battles.

I think the game as is, forces you to use your Cavalry properly, or risk getting hammered.

I always try to preserve my horse soldiers for recon. I try to never leave them in an exposed position.

Yep.. Cavalry and Scout Upgrades on select infantry is the way to go here. Also..moving slowly, deselect them to get a new view, select and move forward. Rinse and repeat.
It's an abstract way to scout ahead...and it works well.
Mind you scout Upgrades are expensive, so only select certain units for this, especially in areas where you are cavalry poor at the moment.

Please don't nerf the ambush mechanic! Use the tools given you. This twitch skill maybe the only edge you got in MP, especially if playing CSA against a numerically superior Union opponent.

Additionally, if the ambush mechanic got nerfed, then cavalry would be just another slightly weaker infantry unit that can travel further. Spotting is its #1 value. No one would pay to put an expensive scout upgrade on any type of infantry unit also. Why bother when you can just plow ahead. The whole point of the ambush mechanic is to make a commander think and plan carefully when moving into contested or unknown ground.

Obviously, I have a strong opinion about this and was wondering when it would come up again.

[BillRunacre]

Balloons haven't been mentioned here but they can also be an extremely useful tool in spotting the enemy, and, especially for the Union (at least in my experience, I generally use Cavalry as Confederate), are well worth investing in.

[devoncop]

I am learning this lesson too in MP.

Cav are absolute beasts both for recon and for cutting supply routes. This is something Fafnir and Beriand are frighteningly efficient at.

Mcclellan's Shenandoah Campaign has turned into a logistical nightmare v Beriands Rebs and poor old Sterling Price v Fafnir is having a huge struggle to keep supply open around the Missouri/ Arkensas state line....all down to Cavalry operations.

[PvtBenjamin]

In SC WW2 surprise contact is most egregious in the naval component. How is the Naval component here? Obviously not as important I would guess but has the Naval combat components improved? ty

[Jim D Burns]

In SC WW2 surprise contact is most egregious in the naval component. How is the Naval component here? Obviously not as important I would guess but has the Naval combat components improved? ty

I am finding the surprise mechanic is a bit too powerful in the naval game. I set up wooden ships hidden in the FOW near a monitor to try and ambush monitors during their move as they do a good 3-5 damage on a surprise. Then I flood in a bunch of wooden gunboats or frigates to finish off the monitor 1 damage per attack in my turn. Wooden ships should not be able to do such high damage to a monitor even if they surprise it, I'd say 1-2 damage on a surprise at most would be reasonable.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

The change to land recon is a fundamental part of the game, and is essential to capturing the feel of the ACW as opposed to WW2. What is abstracted in the game as a simple ambush is really a whole range of factors that had a major impact on battles during this era: while spies could inform friendly forces of the general location of the enemy army, CW armies moved around a lot (even within the space covered by a single hex on the game map), and the information they provide would rarely be 100% up-to-date. A two hour delay in the spy finding a friendly patrol could mean the enemy has marched five kilometres from their previous position. A dedicated cavalry patrol could cover that same distance in 15 minutes.
That sort of delay means the opponent is the one to choose the ground that a battle is fought on, and that he can deploy his men into lines earlier. It might mean his troops have a chance to prepare field fortifications or unload supplies. In WW2, once the enemy was located, a soldier could radio his superiors and have artillery falling on the map square in question almost instantly. In the ACW, hours lost meant battles lost (and thus, heavy damage to your units).

In SC WW2 surprise contact is most egregious in the naval component. How is the Naval component here? Obviously not as important I would guess but has the Naval combat components improved? ty

The underlying mechanics of surprise contacts have not changed from the past games - if you run into an unseen enemy ship it will still inflict heavy damage.
That said, naval spotting ranges are now 2 for most ships instead of 1, so if you have a fleet comprised of several ships you can scout a reasonable distance safely. Ports can also be upgraded with lighthouses to increase their spotting range, and ocean-going ships (Frigates, Ships of the Line and Ironclads) can avoid enemy coastal warships - particularly monitors and submarines - by sailing in deeper waters (typically 5 hexes or more from the coastline).

- BNC

[Mithrilotter]

Balloons are very nice, but please note that bad weather blinds them. I have blundered into some bad ambushes thinking that balloons could see in all weather. On the other hand, cavalry seem to see be in all weathers.

[Alter Native]

I like the new system, it requires you to play the game differently from WWII and that's a welcome change.
Every offensive army needs a scouting cavalry now and general positioning is much more important now.

[dhucul2011]

I agree that the ambush works fine in open terrain but in cities it should be toned down. I know the city is there. I should be able to move into the surrounding hexes without being surprised. Or at least LESS surprised?

Maybe cities can always be open to 2 hex spotting?

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I agree that the ambush works fine in open terrain but in cities it should be toned down. I know the city is there. I should be able to move into the surrounding hexes without being surprised. Or at least LESS surprised?

Maybe cities can always be open to 2 hex spotting?

You know the city is there of course. Can you see whats in a city though? It a Forest of houses, warehouses, and larger buildings, not to mention alleys, and backyard orchards and gardens.
Mariopol, Ramadi and Stalingrad come to mind. You know the enemy is somewhere in there...but at what strength or quality?

If out of necessity a town needs to be stormed and risk ambushes..so be it! Take the casualties that are going to come. Urban warfare whether 21st century or in ancient times is the worst kind.

[Willard]

There will all kinds of spies in the U.S. Civil War. Information spread fast about oncoming Armies, build-ups, etc. While playing, having the entire opponent map area in the dark, seems too heavy. The "surprise combat" might be need toned down. Moving adjacent is still quite a distance to take a pop. Single brigades on defense shouldn't be getting that big of an edge. Maybe I should just turn *Off FOW

No need to turn off FOW. It sounds to me like...

You were caught in a trap.
You can't walk out.
Because you didn't scout too much, baby.
Now you can't see.
What they're doing to thee.
When you don't believe the sword I slay!!!!

We can't play on together
With surprise combat (surprise combat)
And we can't build our dreams
On surprise combat

So with the fog of war you know
Armies don't say hello
Would you still see surprise combat in your eyes?
Next turn goes again
Asking where I've been
You can't see the tears are real, I'm crying
(Yes I'm crying)

We can't play on together
With surprise combat (surprise combat)
And we can't build our dreams
On surprise combat

Oh, let our brigades survive
I'll dry the tears from your eyes
Let's don't let a good game die
When army, you know I've never lied to you
Mmm, yeah, yeah

You were caught in a trap.
You can't walk out.
Because you didn't scout too much, baby.
Now you can't you see.
What they're doing to thee.
When you don't believe the sword I slay!!!!

Well, don't you know your caught in a trap?
You can't walk out
Because you love this game too much, baby
Well, don't you know your caught in a trap?
You can't walk out
Because you love this game too much, baby

[Patrat]

Now I feel like I have to go see the new Elvis movie.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I just went to YT to listen to this song. Thanks Captain Willard for your inspired cover! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxOBOhRECoo

Now I'm singing along to your new lyrics.....

"So with the fog of war you know
Armies don't say hello
Would you still see surprise combat in your eyes?
Next turn goes again
Asking where I've been
You can't see the tears are real, I'm crying
(Yes I'm crying)".....

Damn this is brilliant.

btw...quit trashing Saigon hotel rooms will ya...that $#it keeps getting you sent up river.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Wow, this is a masterpiece of lyrics. I'm not sure what to say, except well done and don't give Colonel Parker 50% of the royalties. You may have a future in song writing.

Follow your passion,
-Legend

[Willard]

Hail to the King baby!

[pascalc]

Pass them peanut butter and banana sandwiches on down, please.
Thank you - thank you very much.