Research Balance

[kklemmick]

I've played through the '39 scenario multiple times now from both sides and one thing I noticed is that it's currently impossible to achieve the tech levels that are what the various sides start with in the '44 scenario. In fact, by the end of the game in '45 it's rare to even have a single '45 tech level, let alone '44.

My last game as Germany, where I literally conquered every country on the map, I ended up with this breakdown:
'45 techs: 1
'44 techs: 3
'43 techs: 2
'42 techs: 1
'41 techs: 7
'40 techs: 0
'39 techs: 3

Looking at the other countries at the end of the game, they were in the same boat. Even when playing the US (which starts with 40 points to distribute compared to Germany's 30), it's really difficult to get more than 1 category to be '45 by 1945. From a gameplay perspective this probably isn't a huge deal because all the countries progress about the same, but it does limit the player's options on how to use this. Either the player has to spread the points across unit types they will want in the late game from the start in which case they'll have a few at the '43 and '44 level, or you specialize and shoot for hitting '45. So what this effectively does is cause the player to choose between breakthrough armor and heavy armor, and doesn't allow for having a mix of both in the late game. The same is true for infantry, aircraft, ships and subs.

I'm curious if this was intentional or not? I assumed it was because it means making some limiting choices, but when I looked at the later scenarios where the countries had levels that are simply unattainable using the current system, I'm not so sure.

I don't know the mechanics of how these progressions are calculated, but it looks like from 0 to about 12 days are randomly subtracted each turn for each point assigned. Very often you'll make no progress for a turn even with 2 points assigned. So it's really pretty random and you don't even roll the dice if you don't put at least 1 point in. To get to the '45 level by '45 you need to max the category, which means you have enough points to pick 6 categories to invest in, and it's pointless to invest even 1 point in the other categories.

If the intention was to advance to the levels of the later scenarios given the current mechanics, players would need a lot more points to distribute. Of course there are other ways to solve this as well, but that would probably be the easiest. If the point was to allow the player to advance one category at the expense of another, that's not really possible, as the top category is '45 and you can only attain that by maxing it out.

I'm curious if others are happy with this system, or if most people don't tweak these values at all? Now that I'm playing multi-player I'm thinking more about these system while waiting for my turn to come back.

[AlvaroSousa]

Germany shouldn't have 1945 convoy escort. It does force you to choose where to invest.

Otherwise there would be no point in tech within the game. i would have made it force pools.

But they can get land, uboat, and air techs to 1945.

[kklemmick]

That's why I was asking about the intent here; I don't think anything is broken with this system, it's just that I noticed it is impossible to achieve the starting tech levels of later scenarios. If those tech levels were artificially inflated in order to give the player more options, then that makes perfect sense. I was more asking about what the design goals were here than leveling any criticism.

It looks like your intent was that players plan out a tech strategy at the start of any given scenario and hyper-focus on that. That allows for high level advancements in a few categories, but will cut the player off from the other categories. This is cool IMO because it forces the player to do something like have the UK focus on interceptors while the US focus on escort fighters or something similar. What it doesn't do is allow players to switch tactics late game; For example, Germany doesn't realistically have an option of switching from breakthrough armor to heavy armor late in the game.

[MagicMissile]

I just played a game that went all the way almost so I know that maxed out tech seems to reach 1945 tech in early 1944. I think if you set something at 4 in 1939 and leaves it at 4 it advances like once per year so you should reach 45 tech in 45. Less than 4 and it obviously goes slower.

I would like to see some changes in WP2. My idea would be that if you have at least lets say 2 points in a tech you should advance whenever another country advances but you can not be on the same year but one year behind.
So lets say say italy have 2 points in naval air and are on 1940 tech. The US advances their naval air from 41 to 42 tech the Italians would advance their tech to 1941. I dont like this complete focus on a few things and everything else just stays on 1939 levels.

Also think upgrading ship cost needs to come down. It is too expensive I feel so I rarely tech any ships except sometimes carriers.

/MM

[TrogusP96]

Hi
Cant these rate of progress be adjusted in Editor "Time for Research" and "Research Success Chance"? and cost to upgrade with "Tech Upgrade Cost"

I am wondering if the time to research can be set lower number of days since the game begins Sept 1939.

[AlvaroSousa]

Yea you can edit them.

Tech is always tricky in games because usually it is a single optimal path. Much like RTS games. There is a mathematical optimal path of construction to follow to get the most out of everything.

I try to make it a function of choices that have advantages and consequences.

Much like an event decision if Spain can be bought for the Axis. Either it worth it or it isn't. There is no gray area.