Submarine mechanic v 1.15.00

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Winding my way through an MP match as Allies and I can certainly say the U-boats are the devils they should be now. Not losing supply to wack-a-mole attacks has definitely increased their survivability.

Anyways I like the recent changes. Can't wait to see how this works in SC-WW1 too, especially as Central Powers.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

good luck. U-boats have a rough time, too many experienced hunters

[OldCrowBalthazor]

good luck. U-boats have a rough time, too many experienced hunters

Your probably right but at least now they don't get a supply dink from every swinging dick that hits them now.

[Tanaka]

Winding my way through an MP match as Allies and I can certainly say the U-boats are the devils they should be now. Not losing supply to wack-a-mole attacks has definitely increased their survivability.

Anyways I like the recent changes. Can't wait to see how this works in SC-WW1 too, especially as Central Powers.

Agreed the changes are great! I am still losing subs to the Colonel (who is a great sub hunter) in our new game so every little bit helps! Only getting ganged up on by Destroyers now as it should be! Kudos to the Devs!

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Winding my way through an MP match as Allies and I can certainly say the U-boats are the devils they should be now. Not losing supply to wack-a-mole attacks has definitely increased their survivability.

Anyways I like the recent changes. Can't wait to see how this works in SC-WW1 too, especially as Central Powers.

Agreed the changes are great! I am still losing subs to the Colonel (who is a great sub hunter) in our new game so every little bit helps! Only getting ganged up on by Destroyers now as it should be! Kudos to the Devs!

I hope he puts up your match on YT...as a matter of fact I'll mad dog him to do so haha

[Tanaka]

Winding my way through an MP match as Allies and I can certainly say the U-boats are the devils they should be now. Not losing supply to wack-a-mole attacks has definitely increased their survivability.

Anyways I like the recent changes. Can't wait to see how this works in SC-WW1 too, especially as Central Powers.

Agreed the changes are great! I am still losing subs to the Colonel (who is a great sub hunter) in our new game so every little bit helps! Only getting ganged up on by Destroyers now as it should be! Kudos to the Devs!

I hope he puts up your match on YT...as a matter of fact I'll mad dog him to do so haha

He says he is after you guys start your new game as he likes some of my ideas. I have tried some new things as well. Norway has joined the Axis. He has stopped me in N. Africa but is not having fun in China. Unfortunately my aggression in China is ramping up USA time table with the new patch changes so this is new for me. I might not make it to Pearl Harbor in time haha we will see...

[ThunderLizard11]

Subs seem more useful after 1.15. Still not sure on how valuable sub tech upgrades are.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Subs seem more useful after 1.15. Still not sure on how valuable sub tech upgrades are.

Yep..now they are tougher to take on. ASW is even more key now as the subs supply doesn't get dinked by repeated hits. Anyways, that's what I am experiencing as Allies atm in a MP match early game. Seems if the US can get an effective sub fleet out later on, this could be real trouble for the Japanese and their convoy routes. I really like the change for sure though overall. Now subs are back on the table as a possible strong arm if desired.

[ThunderLizard11]

Subs seem more useful after 1.15. Still not sure on how valuable sub tech upgrades are.

Yep..now they are tougher to take on. ASW is even more key now as the subs supply doesn't get dinked by repeated hits. Anyways, that's what I am experiencing as Allies atm in a MP match early game. Seems if the US can get an effective sub fleet out later on, this could be real trouble for the Japanese and their convoy routes. I really like the change for sure though overall. Now subs are back on the table as a possible strong arm if desired.

My US Subs keep getting clobbered by Japs marine bombers. What level of Sub tech helps against naval air?

[Chernobyl]

What level of Sub tech helps against naval air?

Unfortunately nothing improves submarine air defense. And if you mod the game to increase air defense then they would damage bombers more which isn't quite what we want, so I don't really know what the solution would be.

Do subs dive when attacked by aircraft? Perhaps increase the chance of that?

In my fun personal mod I increase the cost of ASW research, limit it to 1 chit, and don't let Japan research it until later.

I also give the USA unreliable torpedoes for subs and destroyers (much lower base raiding and attack values for US subs) and give the USA a special technology that they can't research until some point in 1942 that 'restores' the stats of subs and destroyers.

[CaesarAug]

As for submarine air defence, the only other parameter to simulate this would be for researchable upgrades on “land” defence evasion, because it likewise includes “air” defence evasion. This works with any other naval unit, and indeed any other air and land unit as well.

Of course this also means evasion from land attacks as well, but that seems reasonable.

A third category of attack/defence evasion parameters would be preferable so that each branch of the military could then be adjusted individually. But as the current game engine allows, the editor has two categories: land and naval evasion. But as I have discovered in my play testing, the land evasion also incorporates air evasion.

And yes, the sub dive mechanic also applies to air bombing.

[Chernobyl]

As for submarine air defence, the only other parameter to simulate this would be for researchable upgrades on “land” defence evasion, because it likewise includes “air” defence evasion. This works with any other naval unit, and indeed any other air and land unit as well.

Of course this also means evasion from land attacks as well, but that seems reasonable.

Oh that's a cool idea, maybe give subs more "land" defensive evasion for upgrading to advanced subs (better radar detection vs aircraft)...
Submarine combat (vs air and vs sea) was very hit or miss.