What would you do?
Here is the situation you face as Brigadier General Gavin, trying to obtain your objectives in Nijmegen Holland as part of the Market Garden Offensive. It is the evening of the third day of battle – 1800 hours. Your 82nd airborne troops are tired and depleted, but have managed to hold onto the Railroad Bridge in Nijmegen, which they successfully crossed yesterday. You also control the southern approaches to both the Railroad Bridge and the Main Bridge across the Waal. A significant number of German troops are attacking south out of Lent, toward Nijmegen. In addition, south of the bridges, tremendous pressure is coming from all directions surrounding and in places infiltrating your troops in the town of Nijmegen.
Further south, although the situation has up until now been under control, you recently received word that an overwhelming number of German troops are hitting your sparsely defended lines at Oostberg and heading toward Mook. It appears the lines may be starting to crumble. You have weakened this front sending troops north to help take care of the pressure in Nijmegen, but Germans infiltrating the heights around Groesbeek have delayed these troops. They are exhausted and unlikely to take part in the battle until tomorrow if they can even get through then. The situation is critical since the Hueman Bridge, just beyond Mook, is the only one across the Maas-Waal canal under your control that will take vehicular traffic. Without this bridge or even if this bridge is contested, the reinforcements heading to Nijmegen will be delayed or stopped. This is because the Honinghutje Bridge was blown up in our face as we attempted to secure it. The situation from Nijmegen to Mook is shown in Figure one. Remember that the intelligence on German troops is sketchy and sometimes old. The estimates of number of troops could be lower or could be higher.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/gstockbridge/Figure1.jpg
A ray of hope is on the way by the name of the Grenadier Guards who have just arrived and are on their way to Nijmegen via the Hueman Bridge. They are about 15 kilometers from the Hueman Bridge and another 9 kilometers to Nijmegen. These troops are shown in Figure two:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/gstockbridge/Figure2.jpg
Additional reinforcements should be entering the area in about one hour, but could be delayed as much as three hours. Figure three shows what is coming and when:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/gstockbridge/Figure3.jpg
Your Challenge – What would you do? The next several hours will make or break this battle. Before I play it out (and I have my ideas) I wanted to see if anyone had ideas on what orders to give next. Split the Grenadiers between north and south? Send the Grenadier Guards to the north and then send subsequent reinforcements to the south? Pull back from the north of the RR Bridge? Move the Groesbeek troops? What about artillery, where should they be focused? Other ideas? So post away if you are interested and If I hear none I shall just play it out and show you the results.
Once you have read Nijmegen day 4...
Moderator: Arjuna
For what it's worth, I'd dig in hard and hold the north end of the bridge whilst sending all reinforcements south. Focus the artillery on supporting the troops holding the north end. Use the paras to soak up German attacks in the south. Counter-attack with the Guards when the Germans are exhausted. And then celebrate your new appointment in Rejkyavik:D
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Good response Kevin
Kevin,
Good thoughts. I agree on the north end of the bridge, but I am more concerned with the troops in Nijmegen than you seem to be. I am afraid without any reinforcements the town will fall from the south. One of the German assaults is with fresh troops and the paratroopers are all very tired. The onslaught to the south however is very intense – but I am hoping the defensive ground favors the defender. As for artillery, I think you are on track there also as most of the German’s are in the open. The only other consideration I was weighing was using the artillery to support the south until reinforcements arrive. I am thinking that as soon as any artillery arrives I need to set it as general fire support and not move it any closer to battle than I must to get into range.
Good thoughts. I agree on the north end of the bridge, but I am more concerned with the troops in Nijmegen than you seem to be. I am afraid without any reinforcements the town will fall from the south. One of the German assaults is with fresh troops and the paratroopers are all very tired. The onslaught to the south however is very intense – but I am hoping the defensive ground favors the defender. As for artillery, I think you are on track there also as most of the German’s are in the open. The only other consideration I was weighing was using the artillery to support the south until reinforcements arrive. I am thinking that as soon as any artillery arrives I need to set it as general fire support and not move it any closer to battle than I must to get into range.
Not having played yet ...
How good is the Guards going to perform once it gets into the city against a large number of german anti-tank weapons? Hold the south for all it's worth, pull up various paras from the outlying areas to help support the city area before you loose it cause once you get kicked out, you'll not get back in without massive losses I would assume.
Use the Guards to deal with mopping up all the areas where you swipe paras from to save Nim. Don't loose the north end of the bridge either as then you will have all the german units fighting within the city against your armor
How good is the Guards going to perform once it gets into the city against a large number of german anti-tank weapons? Hold the south for all it's worth, pull up various paras from the outlying areas to help support the city area before you loose it cause once you get kicked out, you'll not get back in without massive losses I would assume.
Use the Guards to deal with mopping up all the areas where you swipe paras from to save Nim. Don't loose the north end of the bridge either as then you will have all the german units fighting within the city against your armor
Gary,
I must say your troops are in a pickle, mate. For what it is worth the vital ground is the Heumen crossing and the rail bridge is the prize. You MUST secure Heumen to survive and you WANT TO secure the rail bridge to achieve a decisive victory.
The threat to the Heumen crossing MUST be dealt with. That to the Nijmegen bridge should be dealt with if possible. The Gren Gds could relieve the threat to either. The question is can it do both. For that you need to split it.
KG Herman and the other FJ units advancing in the south are most likely strong enough to drive through to Heumen unless checked by more than what you have there now. Artillery alone is unlikely to be enough. At least another battalion of line troops are required.
The 3.505th Para Bn would have sufficed. In hind sight it was a mistake to have pulled it out of the southern defence line. But no point in crying over spilt milk. The unfortunate thing is that now it can't intervene back south in time nor is it likely to force a direct route north into Nijmegen. Bummer...
Time and space considerations would indicate that Herman could fight his way to Heumen before any further Gds Arm Div units arrive there. This would be a disaster as your reinforcements would have no crossing. So logic dictates that to hold the vital ground at Heumen you are going to have to commit some or all of the Gren Gds.
Normally, it would be best to keep them concentrated together and king hit Herman in the open area near Mook. But I reckon you could get by with just the 2nd ( Arm ) Gren Gds Bn. Especially if you force-march the 3.505th back south. Force-march the 1st ( Mot Inf ) Gren Gds Bn into Nijmegen. Deploy near the south end of the Rail Bridge. Dig in and await relief.
The 3.508th Bn should be withdrawn westward into the centre of Nijmegen. All other forces around Nijmegen should defend in-situ and tough it out.
Well that's what I'd do. But then again I could be overestimating Herman's strength just from the screenshot provided. If you can hang on until the Coldstream Gds arrive, they should be able to counter-attack from the Stadium towards the southern end of the Road bridge and thereby save the day. You'll be a hero and have had a wow of a game to boot.
I must say your troops are in a pickle, mate. For what it is worth the vital ground is the Heumen crossing and the rail bridge is the prize. You MUST secure Heumen to survive and you WANT TO secure the rail bridge to achieve a decisive victory.
The threat to the Heumen crossing MUST be dealt with. That to the Nijmegen bridge should be dealt with if possible. The Gren Gds could relieve the threat to either. The question is can it do both. For that you need to split it.
KG Herman and the other FJ units advancing in the south are most likely strong enough to drive through to Heumen unless checked by more than what you have there now. Artillery alone is unlikely to be enough. At least another battalion of line troops are required.
The 3.505th Para Bn would have sufficed. In hind sight it was a mistake to have pulled it out of the southern defence line. But no point in crying over spilt milk. The unfortunate thing is that now it can't intervene back south in time nor is it likely to force a direct route north into Nijmegen. Bummer...
Time and space considerations would indicate that Herman could fight his way to Heumen before any further Gds Arm Div units arrive there. This would be a disaster as your reinforcements would have no crossing. So logic dictates that to hold the vital ground at Heumen you are going to have to commit some or all of the Gren Gds.
Normally, it would be best to keep them concentrated together and king hit Herman in the open area near Mook. But I reckon you could get by with just the 2nd ( Arm ) Gren Gds Bn. Especially if you force-march the 3.505th back south. Force-march the 1st ( Mot Inf ) Gren Gds Bn into Nijmegen. Deploy near the south end of the Rail Bridge. Dig in and await relief.
The 3.508th Bn should be withdrawn westward into the centre of Nijmegen. All other forces around Nijmegen should defend in-situ and tough it out.
Well that's what I'd do. But then again I could be overestimating Herman's strength just from the screenshot provided. If you can hang on until the Coldstream Gds arrive, they should be able to counter-attack from the Stadium towards the southern end of the Road bridge and thereby save the day. You'll be a hero and have had a wow of a game to boot.
Originally posted by Mr.Frag
How good is the Guards going to perform once it gets into the city against a large number of german anti-tank weapons?
I agree on the 2nd Grenadier Guards Bn (GGBn), but the 1st GGbn has a stronger infantry contingent and would likely do well. I could even pull off the armor from the 1 GGBn and use it in the south. I am leaning toward the split of the GGBn's. 1st North (w/o armor) and 2nd south.
Originally posted by Mr.Frag
...pull up various paras from the outlying areas to help support the city area before you loose it cause once you get kicked out, you'll not get back in without massive losses I would assume.
I agree the para's would be good in the city, but I don't think any Paras can make it to the city in time - unfortunately...
Originally posted by Mr.Frag
...Don't loose the north end of the bridge either as then you will have all the german units fighting within the city against your armor
I agree! I am wondering if I could pull some units back to the south of the bridge to help defend without loosing the north...Hate to loose both though...
Originally posted by Arjuna
Agreed!I must say your troops are in a pickle, mate. For what it is worth the vital ground is the Heumen crossing and the rail bridge is the prize. You MUST secure Heumen to survive and you WANT TO secure the rail bridge to achieve a decisive victory.
You hit the nail on the head – I am leaning toward splitting it. All armor south and 1st GGBn infantry North.The threat to the Heumen crossing MUST be dealt with. That to the Nijmegen bridge should be dealt with if possible. The Gren Gds could relieve the threat to either. The question is can it do both. For that you need to split it.
Agreed!KG Herman and the other FJ units advancing in the south are most likely strong enough to drive through to Heumen unless checked by more than what you have there now. Artillery alone is unlikely to be enough. At least another battalion of line troops are required.
I hear ya man…..Bad move on my part….The 3.505th Para Bn would have sufficed. In hind sight it was a mistake to have pulled it out of the southern defence line. But no point in crying over spilt milk. The unfortunate thing is that now it can't intervene back south in time nor is it likely to force a direct route north into Nijmegen. Bummer...
I am hopeful the current force plus newly arrived artillery holds them until reinforcements arrive.Time and space considerations would indicate that Herman could fight his way to Heumen before any further Gds Arm Div units arrive there. This would be a disaster as your reinforcements would have no crossing. So logic dictates that to hold the vital ground at Heumen you are going to have to commit some or all of the Gren Gds.
Sad to say 3.505th is exhausted where they are – not going to do much in this battle. Besides – enough Germans have infiltrated around Nijmegen that they would have to fight their way in….Normally, it would be best to keep them concentrated together and king hit Herman in the open area near Mook. But I reckon you could get by with just the 2nd ( Arm ) Gren Gds Bn. Especially if you force-march the 3.505th back south. Force-march the 1st ( Mot Inf ) Gren Gds Bn into Nijmegen. Deploy near the south end of the Rail Bridge. Dig in and await relief.
Agreed.The 3.508th Bn should be withdrawn westward into the centre of Nijmegen. All other forces around Nijmegen should defend in-situ and tough it out.
Not feeling like a hero at this point…..Well that's what I'd do. But then again I could be overestimating Herman's strength just from the screenshot provided. If you can hang on until the Coldstream Gds arrive, they should be able to counter-attack from the Stadium towards the southern end of the Road bridge and thereby save the day. You'll be a hero and have had a wow of a game to boot.
Great comments...
Thanks
Yakstock
Pulling units back from the Northern end would not be a good idea IMO. Most likely they would be cut down and overrun if they do so in daylight, given the strength of the German motorised forces on the north side. Alas the perrenial problem of a non-motorised force up against a stronger motorised force. Trouble is, you can't wait till dark to reinforce the southern end of town.
Two paths forward...
I am thinking of running two variations of the game from this point. The first version would split the Grenadier Guards Group between the north and the south. The other version would send all of the Grenadier Guards Group to the South. No one has suggested sending all of the Grenadier Guards to the north so I likely won’t try that variation.
The next question is where specifically to employ the GGBn’s. In the south whether it is all of the Grenadier Guards or just half (mainly armour) I am thinking the defensive position would be around Molenhoek and the heights around that town. If I order them any closer to Mook I feel they may hit advancing Germans. I could either give them orders to proceed to Molenhoek and defend or to form up at the bridge and attack toward Molenhoek (just in case). I am thinking the former versus the later.
As for the North, I am thinking that I should order them to form up at the main circle where Tucker’s 504th HQ currently is and attack east toward the main bridge.
As far as pulling from the north side of the bridge I must confess I had already given orders to the 2.504th to head across the Rail Bridge to Nijmegen. I am thinking, based on Dave’s comments that this may have been a bad order and I need to cancel it.
Thoughts…?
The next question is where specifically to employ the GGBn’s. In the south whether it is all of the Grenadier Guards or just half (mainly armour) I am thinking the defensive position would be around Molenhoek and the heights around that town. If I order them any closer to Mook I feel they may hit advancing Germans. I could either give them orders to proceed to Molenhoek and defend or to form up at the bridge and attack toward Molenhoek (just in case). I am thinking the former versus the later.
As for the North, I am thinking that I should order them to form up at the main circle where Tucker’s 504th HQ currently is and attack east toward the main bridge.
As far as pulling from the north side of the bridge I must confess I had already given orders to the 2.504th to head across the Rail Bridge to Nijmegen. I am thinking, based on Dave’s comments that this may have been a bad order and I need to cancel it.
Thoughts…?
Sounds like "A Bridge Too Far" 
Guess it pays to pay attention to VP values given to locations when starting the scenario as it generally translates to force allocations
I assume those FJ troops are in pristine shape and are going to walk right over your paras
Didn't scroll far enough last time and didn't see that 1,650 worth of troops about to eat your 1.505. Perhaps set up at the lower end of Mook and try and make them come at you across the open terrain to hurt them as much as possible then roll up and run back to Heumen for the big event. Gotta get your Arty back into safe lands even if you have to pull back to the other side of the bridge and fight your way back over with the Guards boys.
Guess it pays to pay attention to VP values given to locations when starting the scenario as it generally translates to force allocations
I assume those FJ troops are in pristine shape and are going to walk right over your paras
Didn't scroll far enough last time and didn't see that 1,650 worth of troops about to eat your 1.505. Perhaps set up at the lower end of Mook and try and make them come at you across the open terrain to hurt them as much as possible then roll up and run back to Heumen for the big event. Gotta get your Arty back into safe lands even if you have to pull back to the other side of the bridge and fight your way back over with the Guards boys.
Gary,
I'd recommend leaving the 2.504th Bn northside. In fact I would strongly recommend you put a unit in the Fort van Holland. This is elevated and provides good observation of the entire area.
Agree with FUP at 504th HQ and attacking ENE to main bridge. Be on your guard your Gren Bn may bumb enemy before the FUP.
In the south, the GTI ( ground of tactical importance for the Heumen crossing is Molenhoek. but in turn, it's GTI is the wooded high ground to the SE. Against, a strong infantry force, your armour is going to be hard pressed to hold these woods - the infantry will end up infiltrating and picking of your tanks at close range. Therefore, its best to prevent them from gettiung into this area. So I would deploy along the southern edge of these woods, along the track running from Mook to Bisselt. There your tanks can gun the infantry down as they cross the open. I would detach one arm sqn to bolster the defence of Mook.
Pull B.80 At Tp back to Mook asap. Order B.80 MG Bty NW to the wooded high ground, facing SE. Remember they need to be deployed to get their HMG online and these provide the bulk of their firepower. Order the B.HC AC Sqn to defend the southern edge of Mook. From there is can support the withdrawal of your AT and MG units. Together, these units should buy you enough time to deploy the GG Arm Bn.
Good luck. Can't wait to see how it pans out.
I'd recommend leaving the 2.504th Bn northside. In fact I would strongly recommend you put a unit in the Fort van Holland. This is elevated and provides good observation of the entire area.
Agree with FUP at 504th HQ and attacking ENE to main bridge. Be on your guard your Gren Bn may bumb enemy before the FUP.
In the south, the GTI ( ground of tactical importance for the Heumen crossing is Molenhoek. but in turn, it's GTI is the wooded high ground to the SE. Against, a strong infantry force, your armour is going to be hard pressed to hold these woods - the infantry will end up infiltrating and picking of your tanks at close range. Therefore, its best to prevent them from gettiung into this area. So I would deploy along the southern edge of these woods, along the track running from Mook to Bisselt. There your tanks can gun the infantry down as they cross the open. I would detach one arm sqn to bolster the defence of Mook.
Pull B.80 At Tp back to Mook asap. Order B.80 MG Bty NW to the wooded high ground, facing SE. Remember they need to be deployed to get their HMG online and these provide the bulk of their firepower. Order the B.HC AC Sqn to defend the southern edge of Mook. From there is can support the withdrawal of your AT and MG units. Together, these units should buy you enough time to deploy the GG Arm Bn.
Good luck. Can't wait to see how it pans out.
Slight change
Dave - I agree with you on most of your suggestions. However, relative to the defense around Mook, I am very worried given the orders delay and travel that the GGBn's reinforcements will not be able to make it to the wooded area between Mook and Bisselt. As you can see a German unit has already made it into these woods and given a little more time I think he will have company. This would break up my armor before it has a chance to get into position. For this reason I am leaning to sending them to Molenhoek and then see how it looks when they arrive. I will detach the armor from the 1st Bn and send it to the nursery a little further up the road.
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Dutchguy
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:34 pm
- Location: hiding in the ruins near Arnhem bridge with a PIAT
I want this game! Is it in stores? or download?
A while ago I exchanged emails with a certain 'Dave o'Conner' from Panther Games and he told me that AA RDOA wasn't available in shops in Holland. But eventually I found it, in my hometown. Is it the same with this HTTR/Nijmegen game?
A while ago I exchanged emails with a certain 'Dave o'Conner' from Panther Games and he told me that AA RDOA wasn't available in shops in Holland. But eventually I found it, in my hometown. Is it the same with this HTTR/Nijmegen game?
whoa mohammed!!
(battlecry of 1st para brigade)
(battlecry of 1st para brigade)
Originally posted by Dutchguy
I want this game! Is it in stores? or download?
A while ago I exchanged emails with a certain 'Dave o'Conner' from Panther Games and he told me that AA RDOA wasn't available in shops in Holland. But eventually I found it, in my hometown. Is it the same with this HTTR/Nijmegen game?
see the post from Arjuna right above yours? That's Dave O'Connor right there AA:RDOA isn't in production any more but it's not surprising that a few copies of the CDV version are still available in some shops. Once those copies are all gone there won't be any more, but by then AA:HTTR will hopefully be available.
Regards
33
Steve Golf33 Long
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Dutchguy
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:34 pm
- Location: hiding in the ruins near Arnhem bridge with a PIAT
phew!
The game isn't in production anymore? PHEW!!!!!!
glad I found one then:eek:
But I can't wait untill Highway To The Reich comes out.
But I have to say that if the game was placed in Normandy or somewhere else, I would'nt have bought it, it's the theater that attracted me (my homecountry).
Stupid question maybe, but did anyone who is active here ever visited Holland and the M.G. battlefields?
glad I found one then:eek:
But I can't wait untill Highway To The Reich comes out.
But I have to say that if the game was placed in Normandy or somewhere else, I would'nt have bought it, it's the theater that attracted me (my homecountry).
Stupid question maybe, but did anyone who is active here ever visited Holland and the M.G. battlefields?
whoa mohammed!!
(battlecry of 1st para brigade)
(battlecry of 1st para brigade)
Coming soon
I was away for a bit - just finished next post - if Jef can't get it online I will post the "Microsoft Word-based" version tomorrow.