How to tell two specific countries are at war

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Lothos
Posts: 1304
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 8:22 pm

How to tell two specific countries are at war

Post by Lothos »

Trying to figure out how (in the scripts) two countries are at war.

I was thinking I could use MOBILIZATION_4.txt to do this but I realized its not specific enough. It lets you see if a country has been declared war on by a specific faction but not a specific side.

So here is my problem

- Trying to figure out if Japan declared war on the Allies
- Was going to use the MOBILIZATION_4.txt file but I realized a problem in saying
- If I add a condition here #CONDITION= 112 [1] [1]
- This condition will be tricked into firing when Italy joins the Axis

- This (reverse) condition works to tell me if the Allies declared war on Japan #CONDITION= 60 [1] [2]

So in short, their is no way to figure out if Japan declared war on the allies

Code: Select all

{
#NAME= DE 1062 - Allies DoW on Japan
#POPUP= 
#IMAGE=
#SOUND= 
#FLAG= 1 
#TYPE= 0
#AI= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#LEVEL= 0
#COUNTRY_ID= 60
#TRIGGER= 100
#NM_UPDOWN= 0
#NM_TURNS= 0
#DECISION= 1062
; Japan declared war on by Allies
#CONDITION= 60 [1] [2]
}

{
#NAME= DE 1063 - 
#POPUP= 
#IMAGE=
#SOUND= 
#FLAG= 1 
#TYPE= 0
#AI= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#LEVEL= 0
#COUNTRY_ID= 112
#TRIGGER= 100
#NM_UPDOWN= 0
#NM_TURNS= 0
#DECISION= 1063
#CONDITION= 112 [1] [1]
}
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BillRunacre
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Re: How to tell two specific countries are at war

Post by BillRunacre »

That is correct, it can be an issue to try to work around this.
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Lothos
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Re: How to tell two specific countries are at war

Post by Lothos »

BillRunacre wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:44 am That is correct, it can be an issue to try to work around this.
If that is the case how is it handled in SC World? If Japan was to declare war on the UK in 1940. Is their anything in the scripts to have the USA get into the war faster or anything to detect such an event?

Right now I am coming up empty with no way to handle this.

I bring this up because I am a World In Flames player (the real board game not the digital) and have had a game once where Japan Declared war on the UK only in 1940 and if it was not for the USA coming into the war earlier it would have been a cake walk for Japan. In that game they did take all of India and Australia because I had horrible USA entry.

Trying to figure out a way to negate that and I am coming up blank!
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BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: How to tell two specific countries are at war

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

I think for the specific case of "is Japan at war with the Allies", the following might work:

- set up a dummy nation in some far off corner of the map (use "Red" or "Black" or one of the other slots that isn't used for anything). Set it to 1% pro-Axis. Disable diplo on it and set its capital to hidden so players can't DOW it.
- set a condition, if Axis DOW UK, then dummy shifts 2% to Allies. Another one for if Axis DOWs France, and another if Axis DOWs USA, and a fourth for India (I haven't played much of WAW so you might need to do some tricky stuff with that event that brings India in early :roll: ). In the case of the UK and France, Germany starts at war with them and Italy will be at war from the moment they enter, so the only Axis major that can DOW them is Japan. In the case of the USA, doesn't matter who does it because Japan will be pulled in regardless.
- set a mob 3 script, if the US is 100% in, then move dummy 2% Allies. That covers the scenario where the US enters via mobilisation increasing without a DOW, and fiddly cases like Japan DOWing the Dutch East Indies or something.
- Then, set all the scripts that you want to have "if Japan is at war with Allies" to have the condition "if dummy nation is >0% Allies". Because the dummy starts at 1% Axis, any of the events above will tip it over this threshold. In effect, the dummy isn't a nation, but rather a check for "has X,Y or Z event happened yet".

If you ever look through the Civil War scripts and see conditions for nations that don't appear to have any relevance to anything, chances are I did something like this with them :D

- BNC
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Lothos
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Re: How to tell two specific countries are at war

Post by Lothos »

BiteNibbleChomp wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:10 pm I think for the specific case of "is Japan at war with the Allies", the following might work:

- set up a dummy nation in some far off corner of the map (use "Red" or "Black" or one of the other slots that isn't used for anything). Set it to 1% pro-Axis. Disable diplo on it and set its capital to hidden so players can't DOW it.
- set a condition, if Axis DOW UK, then dummy shifts 2% to Allies. Another one for if Axis DOWs France, and another if Axis DOWs USA, and a fourth for India (I haven't played much of WAW so you might need to do some tricky stuff with that event that brings India in early :roll: ). In the case of the UK and France, Germany starts at war with them and Italy will be at war from the moment they enter, so the only Axis major that can DOW them is Japan. In the case of the USA, doesn't matter who does it because Japan will be pulled in regardless.
- set a mob 3 script, if the US is 100% in, then move dummy 2% Allies. That covers the scenario where the US enters via mobilisation increasing without a DOW, and fiddly cases like Japan DOWing the Dutch East Indies or something.
- Then, set all the scripts that you want to have "if Japan is at war with Allies" to have the condition "if dummy nation is >0% Allies". Because the dummy starts at 1% Axis, any of the events above will tip it over this threshold. In effect, the dummy isn't a nation, but rather a check for "has X,Y or Z event happened yet".

If you ever look through the Civil War scripts and see conditions for nations that don't appear to have any relevance to anything, chances are I did something like this with them :D

- BNC
Not really following you but from what I am following the issue is still the same.

Their is no way to detect Japan declaring war on the allies

Any script that I create that says if X country was declared war on by the Axis would fire immediately when Italy joins the war. Their is no way to write a script to say only fire if Japan DOWs someone.
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BillRunacre
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Re: How to tell two specific countries are at war

Post by BillRunacre »

That is why we use CONDITION_POSITION to see if Japanese units are in Siberia as a way of detecting if Japan and the USSR are at war, or for Soviet units in Manchuria.

So something like that can be used as a work around, but it only really works in checking for land advances, e.g. both sides could bomb each other and nothing would be triggered.

That said, if the presence of Japanese naval forces in a certain location were to trigger US mobilization, then the position of Japanese forces in triggering the event is almost a guarantee that shortly afterwards they are at war.
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Lothos
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Re: How to tell two specific countries are at war

Post by Lothos »

BillRunacre wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:01 pm That is why we use CONDITION_POSITION to see if Japanese units are in Siberia as a way of detecting if Japan and the USSR are at war, or for Soviet units in Manchuria.

So something like that can be used as a work around, but it only really works in checking for land advances, e.g. both sides could bomb each other and nothing would be triggered.

That said, if the presence of Japanese naval forces in a certain location were to trigger US mobilization, then the position of Japanese forces in triggering the event is almost a guarantee that shortly afterwards they are at war.
aye, its not pretty but it would appear Mobilization_2.txt file would be the best to handle that
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