USN carrier task force composition in late 50s.

[thewood1]

I am trying to build a couple of scenarios around the military clash between Taiwan and the PRC in 1958. Right now, I envision two: an air battle over the island of Quemoy and then a larger battle between the PRC and the US forces backing up Taiwan. I know four carrier task groups ended up around Taiwan. But I don't know their composition of ships. Anyone have any knowledge or sources for that?

[thewood1]

No sooner posted that and then found this...

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_memo ... M4900.html

It helps a bit. Also stumbled upon this and it might help with other scenarios...

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/da ... /Part5.pdf

and this one...

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/h ... ume-1.html

Any other help is appreciated.

[Gunner98]

Yikes- a 600+ page 'abridged' Memorandum... Brevity was not the word of the day I guess... Looks like an interesting read.

B

[Gunner98]

I am trying to build a couple of scenarios around the military clash between Taiwan and the PRC in 1958. Right now, I envision two: an air battle over the island of Quemoy and then a larger battle between the PRC and the US forces backing up Taiwan. I know four carrier task groups ended up around Taiwan. But I don't know their composition of ships. Anyone have any knowledge or sources for that?

Have you checked the 'Go Navy' pages? That should give you the air wings http://www.gonavy.jp/CVf.html

[Gunner98]

This one has the air OOB (USAF) in an annex but is vague on the navy side: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nukevault/ebb249/doc11.pdf

The cruise books might be helpful... but tedious

https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv41-59/index.html

12 min film, not very useful but interesting, it is about the leadup and ends ~1956 or so. Lots of good footage and loaded with propaganda https://stock.periscopefilm.com/64554-u ... ond-print/

[thewood1]

Thanks. I know the exact USAF OOB, Navy airwings, carriers, and marine contingents. Its the escorts I'm missing. I am pretty sure the Lexington only had four DDs, as well as the Hancock. The other carriers, Lexington and Midway, I can account for their movements and general positions.

[tylerblakebrandon]

Once I know the CV I generally look up the cruise books to try and nail down the escorts.

[Nikel]

Some info I could find.

The Rand document is censored. This version is complete? though the quality of the text is poor.

https://archive.org/details/The1958Taiw ... 2/mode/2up


Mahoney U.S. Navy Responses to International Incidents and Crises, 1955-1975

There is a wealth for scenario ideas here.

It is said that up to 6 at a time were involved. Some sources cited that must hace the details, but very difficult to find.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/2107 ... -cna-study


Siegel The Use of Naval Forces in thePost-War Era: U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps Crisis Response Activity, 1946-1990

Similar but updated.

https://www.cna.org/reports/1991/2790024600.pdf


History of the 7th Fleet.

However, here it is said:

"They deployed the bulk of the Seventh Fleet to waters off Taiwan. At the time the fleet consisted of carriers Hancock (CVA 19), Lexington (CVA 16), and Princeton, 2 cruisers, 36
destroyers, 4 submarines, and 20 amphibious and support ships. Burke also directed the Essex carrier task group, then in the Mediterranean, and the Midway carrier task group on the U.S. West Coast
to reinforce the fleet. By the 28th a host of aircraft carriers, surface warships, and submarines had established a formidable presence in the Taiwan Strait and nearby waters."

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/da ... apower.pdf


Of possible interest. Taiwan: Chiang Visits 7th Fleet. 1958

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/VLVA ... -7TH-FLEET

[thewood1]

I have all of those except the 7th fleet one. That is a very good source. Thanks.

[Nikel]

So difficult to find for the USN OOB, then the other side?

Some Eisenhower's era documents, some details. Noticed the names, ChiComs and ChiNats

https://history.state.gov/historicaldoc ... 1958-60v19


Going through all the cold war ships would be tedious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... ted_States


But some of them can be detected:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Helena_(CA-75)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Navasota_(AO-106)


In this video, 2 DDs.

https://www.criticalpast.com/video/6567 ... ter-planes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Shields

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ammen_(DD-527)



Not sure you want them, but finally found the 4 DDs that were sent with the Essex, from the Mediterranean (Lebanon coast), through the Suez Canal to the Pacific)

It is from the Abbot cruise book.

E4DDs.png (167.74 KiB) Viewed 908 times

[thewood1]

I have a couple physical books that help quite a bit for PLAN and Taiwan OOBs. Still a guess, but an educated guess. Frankly, the non-US navies are pretty insignificant for anything but shore bombardment and basic patrols. Its the air battle and what the carriers bring to it that matter most.

[Nikel]

Destroyer Division 32

[Reportedly, during 1958, Mason was attached to Destroyer Division 32 in Yokosuka, Japan and operated with the USS George K. MacKenzie (DD-836), the USS Henry W. Tucker (DD-875), and the USS Rupertus (DD-851). ed.]

https://cosmicshipmedia.net/history.htm


USS Los Angeles (CA-135)

On 27 August 1958, the Los Angeles made an emergency deployment to Formosa (now Taiwan), departing from Long Beach with only 24 hours notice. Known as the Quemoy-Matsu Crisis, Los Angeles joined Task Group 77.6 of the Seventh Fleet on 10 September, 35 miles from Formosa, to protect Formosa from a possible invasion by Communist China.

Significantly, the Chinese Communists ceased firing on the islands on the day the Los Angeles took station opposite the Island of Quemoy, only to begin again after the cruiser left the area! On 5 October 1958, with USS Los Angeles stationed 14 miles from Quemoy and performing air control duties, the Chinese bombardment of Formosa ended and a cease fire was declared.

https://uss-la-ca135.org/3history.html

[Nikel]

Bouchard 1989, Use of naval force in crises: a theory of stratified crisis interaction

Nice reference, describes 4 crisis, one of them Taiwan 1958 starting in p. 424, some details on the 7th fleet organization in p. 443, naval operations from p. 455, incidents from p. 478, citing Hopewell and McGinty.

Vol.II

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA234362.pdf

The 3 Vols.

https://calhoun.nps.edu/handle/10945/26829


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hopewell_(DD-681)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_McGinty

[thewood1]

Thanks for the help. It turns out that reading the 600-page memorandum...

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_memo ... M4900.html

...actually provides almost all the naval data I needed. There are still a few odds and ends that the other sources help with. But the above read also provides a trove of scenarios and detailed ROE. So thanks everyone.