Joel Billings wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:55 pm
So did it work out that the Soviets have 60% of the need for guns, and 40% for AFVs (until turn 41 for the other elements)? It could be that there's some code in to do just that to account for Soviet early logistics issues with Soviet armored elements. If you set to 1.0 all the non gun, non AFV elements, I think you come out at the right need value for the Soviet unit at the bottom of your post.
Okay. Let's start it that way.
I am using the divisor of 66,666 from the German side as a base for all of this.
I looked at every single element in the editor and how it behaves
early on. And since Artillery is special I tried reproducing it's numbers.
- Infantry = *1
- Armor/AA/Guns = *0,4
- Artillery -> NOT *0,6 - it DIFFERS!!!

- T41_Soviet.png (50.03 KiB) Viewed 1071 times
Using the 60% modifier for artillery in this T41 example gives the correct numbers.
So that' seems fine.
BUT ....
Artillery has several switching/alternating modfiers not mentioned in the manual (afaik).
I figured that out with normal on map Divisions, but for the sake of ease I will use Artillery-SUs to clarify with pictures for people to not see that many numbers at once.
Turn 1-15
Code: Select all
(((Element1*AmmoUse1)+(Element2*AmmoUse2)....)/66,666)*0,4*0,5
So basically *0,2, so 20%

- switch_T15-T16.png (487.07 KiB) Viewed 1071 times
Turn 16-28 (End of '41)
Code: Select all
(((Element1*AmmoUse1)+(Element2*AmmoUse2)....)/66,666)*0,4*0,5*0,6
So basically *0,12

- switch_T28-T29.png (433.38 KiB) Viewed 1071 times
Turn 29 (start of '42)- +++ (1944?)
Code: Select all
(((Element1*AmmoUse1)+(Element2*AmmoUse2)....)/66,666)*0,4*0,6
So basically *0,24
Turn ...YY-...ZZZ
Code: Select all
(((Element1*AmmoUse1)+(Element2*AmmoUse2)....)/66,666)*0,6
So basically *0,6 which is the 60% stated in the manual.
...not seen this multiplier separately (taking German numbers as a base) without further *0,4 being added
Additional, someone in Discord shared his numbers for comparison ArtillerySU vs ArtillerySU-ASSAULT. There this "case 2" indicates that the Assault status is "erasing" the *0,6-modifier.

- Normal_vs_Assault_March41.png (287.3 KiB) Viewed 1071 times
I am not sure wether I have missed some weather or winter rules which may be causing this
switcheridoo. If so, let me know which rules there are.
It also would be nice if someone could doublecheck or at least compare it's units Ammo-Need-values between those turns where the changes happen in some savegames to verify the dates at least (I guess Artillery-SU's should be the easiest way to see).
I can't give any statement on how this plays out balancing wise or wether those multipliers/lower ammo actually affects combat as intended/suggested.
Denniss wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:13 pm
I assume the ammo need multiplier also affects rate of fire by the same multiplier? Is this verified to be working?
I'd like to verify, but I am still busy digging into the Armor Penetration topic to one day possibly be able to clarify that a armor pen of 6mm for a 37mm or 4mm for a 30mm Cannon aren't correct. Since 3000 Sorties from uncontested/un-AA'ed Ju 87G's are supposed to kill tanks and not just grind off rust.
K62 wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:49 pm
How do you create those thousand-tank units in the editor?
I change the TOE the unit is using to what I want, click "rebuild" then "resupply".
Rexzapper wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:11 pm
It seemed obvious that the Soviet units were less reliant in ammo/supply than the Axis... but I didn't expect them to only use 40%. Of course, this was not documented at all.
Seems like only Ammo is impacted, Supply and Fuel are the same (from what my brain has realized so far).