How to save fuel as the Axis

[Kensai]

I'm right now at end of November of 1941 and the front has come to a standstill while I'm digging in for the winter offensive of the USSR.

However, event I didnt use my airforce and tanks for six turns now, I still lose nearly same amount of fuel each month, there seem to be no way to rebuild the stockpile.

Do I miss something obvious here?

[jasonbroomer]

Don't worry about fuel in the production menu. Any savings you make will be a drop in the ocean.

Not flying the Lwft is a good idea if you don't have to, as this lessens the supply requirements in Russia.

What matters is the amount of fuel you can get to your panzer(and motorised) as this determines their MPs (amongst other factors). Not moving them for a turn or two allows them to stockpile supplies

Higher supply priority provides more supply each turn (and thus fuel). However, this is a balancing act as the higher supply priority means more trips to the depots, which results in using trucks from your panzer divisions (rather than those available in the pool). The more trucks used from the division results in lower MPs... [This is what the 'unit truck' field means in the logistics report. Ideally this needs to be minimised]

It's a fun game isn't it

[ShaggyHiK]

The idea that the main consumer of fuel is tanks and aircraft is fundamentally wrong, the main consumer of fuel is industry, transportation logistics for the needs of factory production. Internal transport is more voracious than tank divisions.

In addition, in real history there was a delay problem. Fuel sent from Germany in September reached the front in December. Which, on the one hand, improved the logistics and mobility of the units, but, on the other hand, delayed the immobilization of the Wehrmacht.

[ShaggyHiK]

In the game, in order for divisions to stop consuming fuel from the pool, their supply must be at a very high level for several turns in a row, which rarely happens in reality. And even then there is still a conditional supply requirement for local shipments.

[Kensai]

thanks for the answers.

I've shipped most of my panzers to western europe and Italy but the fuel demand still goes up. Seems like I'm out of fuel in a few turns.

What happens when I'm out? Pretty strange system. The remaining units are also at max level supplies/fuel.

[Jango32]

Fuel (the one in the graphs) does not matter in this game.

[therealevan]

I am a little surprised with a few of the responses in this thread. Because the axis player has nearly zero control over oil/fuel production (outside of capturing hexes that have those oil facilities, that can then be repaired and brought up to production), the axis player is fundamentally required to conserve fuel because there isn't really a direct way of attaining more (ie; you can't build an oil refinery).

In fact I would argue, a 'drop' of fuel for the Axis is better than no drop at all. Especially once you get into later years of the campaign. An Axis player should strive at any opportunity to conserve, and identify moments to expend that fuel to achieve operational or strategic success.

[Wild]

I have never had a problem with running out of fuel no mater what I did, It doesn't seem to matter much. Kind of unfortunate because in real life it was very important.

Mind you, I've always won the game by the end of '42 so later in the game in '44 maybe running out of fuel matters more?

[Jango32]

I am a little surprised with a few of the responses in this thread. Because the axis player has nearly zero control over oil/fuel production (outside of capturing hexes that have those oil facilities, that can then be repaired and brought up to production), the axis player is fundamentally required to conserve fuel because there isn't really a direct way of attaining more (ie; you can't build an oil refinery).

In fact I would argue, a 'drop' of fuel for the Axis is better than no drop at all. Especially once you get into later years of the campaign. An Axis player should strive at any opportunity to conserve, and identify moments to expend that fuel to achieve operational or strategic success.

He is not fundamentally required to conserve fuel because in the graphs you will reach a "minimum threshold" of fuel that will never go down. It will never go down even if you run the entire army and airforce on supply priority 4 from turn 1 to the end of the game. The only thing you need to worry about is the depots receiving enough freight that gets generated from the NSS hexes.

The higher the supply priority for an HQ, that HQ (and all subordinated HQs if applicable) will demand more freight. More freight is generated in the NSS, more freight is delivered to the depots. More freight from the depots reach the units, more supplies (and more ammo is generated; ammo is generated only from the supplies received in that logistics phase) and more fuel. Armaments, resources, oil refineries etc do not have any impact whatsoever on how the game's logistics and production will go because of modifiers baked into the scenarios - only chassis factories matter (and even then, only those that do not get evacuated automatically).

[Jango32]

fuel_2.png (699.93 KiB) Viewed 1648 times

fuel.png (1.1 MiB) Viewed 1648 times

Here are two examples, one is from NightPhoenix's Stalingrad to Berlin game on YouTube and the other is from an old 1941 GC I did. Both of us paid zero heed to fuel stores and whatnot because they didn't matter at all for the fuel on-map units received and how many MPs they had. 1941 and 1942 for me, 1942 and 1943 for NightPhoenix saw constant offensives on the map (save for heavy mud turns and in my case the 1941-1942 winter) as a result.

[Veterin]

fuel_2.pngfuel.png

Here are two examples, one is from NightPhoenix's Stalingrad to Berlin game on YouTube and the other is from an old 1941 GC I did. Both of us paid zero heed to fuel stores and whatnot because they didn't matter at all for the fuel on-map units received and how many MPs they had. 1941 and 1942 for me, 1942 and 1943 for NightPhoenix saw constant offensives on the map (save for heavy mud turns and in my case the 1941-1942 winter) as a result.

I remember when i first started playing this game i would try and bomb Ploiesti

[therealevan]

I am a little surprised with a few of the responses in this thread. Because the axis player has nearly zero control over oil/fuel production (outside of capturing hexes that have those oil facilities, that can then be repaired and brought up to production), the axis player is fundamentally required to conserve fuel because there isn't really a direct way of attaining more (ie; you can't build an oil refinery).

In fact I would argue, a 'drop' of fuel for the Axis is better than no drop at all. Especially once you get into later years of the campaign. An Axis player should strive at any opportunity to conserve, and identify moments to expend that fuel to achieve operational or strategic success.

He is not fundamentally required to conserve fuel because in the graphs you will reach a "minimum threshold" of fuel that will never go down. It will never go down even if you run the entire army and airforce on supply priority 4 from turn 1 to the end of the game. The only thing you need to worry about is the depots receiving enough freight that gets generated from the NSS hexes.

The higher the supply priority for an HQ, that HQ (and all subordinated HQs if applicable) will demand more freight. More freight is generated in the NSS, more freight is delivered to the depots. More freight from the depots reach the units, more supplies (and more ammo is generated; ammo is generated only from the supplies received in that logistics phase) and more fuel. Armaments, resources, oil refineries etc do not have any impact whatsoever on how the game's logistics and production will go because of modifiers baked into the scenarios - only chassis factories matter (and even then, only those that do not get evacuated automatically).

I feel like my entire life has been a lie. What graph are you referring to re: "Minimum threshold"?

[Jango32]

I feel like my entire life has been a lie. What graph are you referring to re: "Minimum threshold"?

See the two screenshots I made above.

[therealevan]

I feel like my entire life has been a lie. What graph are you referring to re: "Minimum threshold"?

See the two screenshots I made above.

So is this an engine limitation then? I'm trying to understand why there would be such a thing as 'minimum' that is a non-zero integer.

[Jango32]

Basically it's because of the production numbers for the various pools baked into the scenarios. They are so high you'll practically never run out of anything that is used for production/on-map freight conversions - fuel, supplies, resources, you name it. They are what they are probably because it was too hard to balance them for long scenarios.

There are also some very generous fuel use modifiers for equipment in the game which also plays a part in it. Wiedrock spent some time trying to figure it out by messing around in the editor but the bottom line is this: you don't have to worry about fuel as either side. Maybe you do worry about fuel in Vistula to Berlin as the Axis, but I don't know for sure.

[tm1]

Hi

I believe the DEVS or at least one of them I cant remember who is working on a formula for a up coming patch that would have some sought fuel reduction / limiting program added so you would have to be a little more careful in the use of fuel consumption, i read a post some time back I don't know how far its been worked on , but it may have been put on hold because of the new OOB patch that's being worked on at this time.
I'm a Axis player and while its good to know I wont run out of fuel, I would still like to see some sought limit so as it makes it all the more important for Axis capture The Caucasus.

[Denniss]

Axis will run out of fuel in 45 a most fuel is then eaten by factory upkeep/civil usage. In AI tests I had seen ~100k production with ~85k factory/civil use.
AFAIR if fuel falls to ~300k bottomline and stays there its because of a reduction in aircraft pilot training flights.

[jasonbroomer]

fuel_2.pngfuel.png

Here are two examples, one is from NightPhoenix's Stalingrad to Berlin game on YouTube and the other is from an old 1941 GC I did. Both of us paid zero heed to fuel stores and whatnot because they didn't matter at all for the fuel on-map units received and how many MPs they had. 1941 and 1942 for me, 1942 and 1943 for NightPhoenix saw constant offensives on the map (save for heavy mud turns and in my case the 1941-1942 winter) as a result.

I think this bottom line graph indicates that the only fuel available is what was produced last turn. Anyway this is what happens for graphs such as manpower, I assume fuel is the same.

I've never gotten past '42 so I don't really know.

[K62_]

fuel_2.pngfuel.png

Here are two examples, one is from NightPhoenix's Stalingrad to Berlin game on YouTube and the other is from an old 1941 GC I did. Both of us paid zero heed to fuel stores and whatnot because they didn't matter at all for the fuel on-map units received and how many MPs they had. 1941 and 1942 for me, 1942 and 1943 for NightPhoenix saw constant offensives on the map (save for heavy mud turns and in my case the 1941-1942 winter) as a result.

I think this bottom line graph indicates that the only fuel available is what was produced last turn. Anyway this is what happens for graphs such as manpower, I assume fuel is the same.

I've never gotten past '42 so I don't really know.

A lot of fuel is also used by airbases and factory upkeep. So really, before deciding that fuel doesn't matter, you'd have to look at a save from one of these games and conclude that a) ground units get all the fuel they request b) airbases get all the fuel they request c) there is no decline in production.

[ShaggyHiK]

Fuel is important, but seeing a lot of comments that it's not important, I understand that people almost don't play in 43-44 years.

At the beginning of the war, Germany has fuel reserves. By the year 42, they end and further active consumption of fuel by the troops will also lead to the same part of the divisions and / or regiments of aircraft (far from all) will stop driving / flying without receiving the necessary fuel.

That is, actively moving for several turns while conducting active operations will not work for the German player, forcing him to choose more passive strategies or punishing him for weakening the tank divisions that did not receive fuel.

At the same time, real problems begin precisely at the moment of the loss of Romania.