This is F*cking Insane

[denisonh]

I have been playing this game for over a year, and have had problems with surface TFs reacting when they shouldn't.

But it has gone too far too many times.

I am just plain tired of Surface TFs reacting to be pasted by LBA and naval air and achieve absolutely nothing.

Any time I have a TF moving into position for a night run with react set to on, they all of a sudden "react" and move into the friendly base square where enemy TF are located.

But they perform no other function than be targets.

They were too far to reach at night, but can get there in time to get thier a$$ handed to them during the day.

I have had this happen in multiple PBEM games where my naval forces "react" and do nothing but act as target drones.

What in the name of God is the AI doing to make a TF react into a place where there is no CAP (or less than 5 a/c) to get blasted by nearby CVs or LBA, and not even engage?

Does somebody have a reasonable answer? If so, I sure would like to hear it.

I want this sh1t to stop, and hope they fix this major problem in WiTP and the future verison of UV, because it is simply unnacceptable.

[wobbly]

Well mate I hear your pain, but if you have the ships set to react then that is what they are going to do if they pass the necessary checks!
I just make sure surface TFs don't have react on if I want them to do a very specific job.

Is this any different from having your aircraft carriers reacting to a carrier TF and also coming into overwhelming LBA strike range?

[Drongo]

Any time I have a TF moving into position for a night run with react set to on, they all of a sudden "react" and move into the friendly base square where enemy TF are located.

But they perform no other function than be targets.

Mate,

Can you give a detailed example?

I can't quite work out whether the problem is the TF reacting where you don't want it to go, the TF doing nothing in the hex or both.

Cheers

[Micah Goodman]

For the most part I set my TF groups to do not react because than can do some funky things by themselves. The biggest reason is when I send a TF group to a hex that I want to unload something the go to the port suck up fuel and leave. So for the most part I don’t give the computer the option to mess with me.

[mogami]

Hi, There still is a bug that effects task forces that use "fast movement"

Types that can be effected
Bombardment
Fast Transport
TF's that react.

If your TF reacts to a hex it should have combat. If you have retire on. It should react/fight/retire

Send saves. (move this to bug report forum)

[Sonny]

Originally posted by denisonh
I have been playing this game for over a year, and have had problems with surface TFs reacting when they shouldn't.

But it has gone too far too many times.

I am just plain tired of Surface TFs reacting to be pasted by LBA and naval air and achieve absolutely nothing.

Any time I have a TF moving into position for a night run with react set to on, they all of a sudden "react" and move into the friendly base square where enemy TF are located.

But they perform no other function than be targets.

They were too far to reach at night, but can get there in time to get thier a$$ handed to them during the day.

I have had this happen in multiple PBEM games where my naval forces "react" and do nothing but act as target drones.

What in the name of God is the AI doing to make a TF react into a place where there is no CAP (or less than 5 a/c) to get blasted by nearby CVs or LBA, and not even engage?

Does somebody have a reasonable answer? If so, I sure would like to hear it.

I want this sh1t to stop, and hope they fix this major problem in WiTP and the future verison of UV, because it is simply unnacceptable.

Now you know one of the reasons I quit our game.

Glad to see you made it to the Northern Va. area.

[denisonh]

Originally posted by Drongo
Mate,

Can you give a detailed example?

I can't quite work out whether the problem is the TF reacting where you don't want it to go, the TF doing nothing in the hex or both.

Cheers

Situation:

weather: Rain

4 CAs, 1CL and 5DDs at Townsville in a surface combat TF under Scott. (Picture attached)

Refuel the TF (DDs at 3000 endurance). TF should not be going too far, as it is showing low op points.

Set to do not retire and select a destination hex 11 hexes from PM, which currently has an enemy invasion TF consisting of unescorted APs occupying the hex.

TF reacts during the day phase and moves to PM.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 10,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 31
D3A Val x 84
B5N Kate x 108

Allied aircraft
P-40E Kittyhawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 2 destroyed
D3A Val x 8 damaged
B5N Kate x 4 damaged


Allied Ships
DD Cushing, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA Chester, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CA Canberra
CA Portland, Bomb hits 5, on fire
CL Achillies, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Mahan
DD Jarvis, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Fanning
DD Conyngham, Bomb hits 1, on fire


They get plastered. Lucky, as the IJN air wings were fatigued from strikes during the previous two days, or they would have been on the bottom.

1 CA and 2 DDs are undamaged. The AI breaks the damaged ships into new TFs, but not a single one of the TFs engage the unescorted APs, not even the undamaged ships.

It would have been at least somewhat consoling to have the remaining ships engage the APs (the apparent reason for them even being at PM).

This is the second time this has happened to me this week, and has happened at least three other times in PBEM.

[mogami]

Hi, You have a TF move from TV to PM in less then 24 hours? (2 movement phases?
You have to change "do not retire" or you are telling TF it is OK to arrive during daylight.
"Retire on" means only go to target at night and be gone after day movement (before 1st air phase)

So except for this TF moving very far it is acting according to program. (after it is attacked by air and suffers damage it auto sets to retire. (so no surface combat)

[BillBrown]

It that situation I have always used the sequence.

Turn 1: set TF to Patrol/ do not retire and Do Not react. Move it to within about 10-11 hexs of target.

Turn 2: Set TF to Retire alowed and React. give it a destination of the target hex.

The TF will go it at night and initiate combat and then retire toward its home base.

[denisonh]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, You have a TF move from TV to PM in less then 24 hours? (2 movement phases?
You have to change "do not retire" or you are telling TF it is OK to arrive during daylight.
"Retire on" means only go to target at night and be gone after day movement (before 1st air phase)

So except for this TF moving very far it is acting according to program. (after it is attacked by air and suffers damage it auto sets to retire. (so no surface combat)

I understand the retire piece.

I did not think, given I refuled the TF that turn, that it COULD even get to PM in one turn.

And retire does not matter, because the TF would have to expend all its movement just to get to PM, that means both day and night at near max speed, so retire is hardly the issue.

I am pointing out that there is a problem with the routine that

a) Has a TF reacting from that far away.
b) When reacting, is unable to conduct combat ops (the purpose of the reaction)
c) Exposes itself to certain destruction.
d) A TF that refuled and showed a max move of "1" moved form TV to PM in one turn.

[denisonh]

Originally posted by BillBrown
It that situation I have always used the sequence.

Turn 1: set TF to Patrol/ do not retire and Do Not react. Move it to within about 10-11 hexs of target.

Turn 2: Set TF to Retire alowed and React. give it a destination of the target hex.

The TF will go it at night and initiate combat and then retire toward its home base.

Agreed.

I do the same.

But the fact I had refuled and the distances involved, I did not think it was possible.

The situation refers to the distances involved, usually with a TF starting in excess of 18 hexes away reacting. They end up at the destination in the day and do not engage. I have had the TFs set to retire and do not retire. It did not matter.

The problem is the distance.

[Ron Saueracker]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, There still is a bug that effects task forces that use "fast movement"

Types that can be effected
Bombardment
Fast Transport
TF's that react.

If your TF reacts to a hex it should have combat. If you have retire on. It should react/fight/retire

Send saves. (move this to bug report forum)

Mogami. This happens quite frequently with FT TFs especially. When setting an FT TFs destination that is friendly, the TF frequently screws up and stays in the friendly hex. The whole point of an FT TF is thereby negated. This just happened in a game vs Snigbert. Result, no supplies offloaded and two DDs hit by an airstrike, one which was subsequently sunk by an S boat as it broke off from parent stupid TF.

[BillBrown]

Originally posted by denisonh
Agreed.

I do the same.

But the fact I had refuled and the distances involved, I did not think it was possible.

The situation refers to the distances involved, usually with a TF starting in excess of 18 hexes away reacting. They end up at the destination in the day and do not engage. I have had the TFs set to retire and do not retire. It did not matter.

The problem is the distance.

I'm sorry, one of the things that I guess is implied is that I try to not let the computer AI do things I don't think it should do. By forcing the TF to stop in the hex I want it to I am attempting to circumvent any AI screw ups. I have to live with my own failures, I do not want to have to live with the AI ones too. I think I remember the same situation you describe happening to me once when I first started. That was when I decided I had to take complete control, and this scares me a little contemplating WitP.

[Snigbert]

This just happened in a game vs Snigbert. Result, no supplies offloaded and two DDs hit by an airstrike, one which was subsequently sunk by an S boat as it broke off from parent stupid TF.

It keeps happening to my FT DDs that keep resupplying Irau as well, but luckily I have enough CAP there to prevent your air strikes I think. Plus I am aware of the bug so I use Long Range Cap accordingly.

[mogami]

Hi, No I meant the movement to PM had to be a bug. Ships only react to bases within 12 hours movement (1 movement phase)
It sounds like your TF teleported to PM.

If it was working correctly the TF would need to be much closer then TV to react to PM.

There are problems with TF that have to use the fast movement (like react)
Bombardment TF's are really frustrating when they move to the hex, and sit (no bombardment and no retire) only to be pounded by air. (This has killed several of my games. Although not since 2.30 full start. (I had several carry overs. games began before 2.3 and upgraded still had TF's do this.)
Now my most common problem with FT is ghosts. (LCU on ships after they've been unloaded. You still have the unit listed as on board but no load value. Other ghosts include enemy units.

Computer programs for me have always gotten wierder the longer they go and 635 turns of scenario 17 or 19 has produced some strange effects.

[Mr.Frag]

Perhaps the react switch ignores ops points being burnt in the code, causing this issue, should be easy enough to test it out with a couple of TF's in the same location, both set to react, one freshly fueled and one not...

Give it a test.

[color]

Originally posted by Mogami

It sounds like your TF teleported to PM.

Maybe the task force had been stationed there on this mission for a long time, accumulation MPs?

I once had a transport fleet on hold at the same hex out in the open sea for several days, and when I set it to move for Lunga while a newly arrived carrier group were to catch up next turn, the task force jumped to a hex two or three times the distance it would normally move during a day . .

A nasty surprise.

They almost jeopardized my whole operation by moving into enemy carrier range before my own carriers catched up.

Jorgen