Light tanks need a serious rework

[SwordOfJustice]

Nothing I can imagine justifies the vast difference in soft attack values between light and medium tanks. The values for light tanks need serious overhaul and I hope that gets done in the short term with a patch.

[Soar_Slitherine]

The 105mm howitzers that are the most effective anti-soft weapon available to medium tanks get a 50% firepower boost compared to a light tank's 60mm howitzer. In addition, they do not suffer caliber matrix penalties against battledress or heavy battledress in the lategame. Everything else that boosts medium tanks' anti-soft weapon performance applies equally to light tanks.

In practice light tanks are quite powerful, especially for the stage of the game where you can first get them, even if they fall off in the late game compared to medium tanks due to their lower caliber and armor thickness values.

[SwordOfJustice]

A good answer, but I play the game partly for the immersion. I just can't reconcile the soft attack values from light tanks with 60mm howitzers that I'm seeing compared my medium tank soft attack values even though I know my medium tanks are armed with anti tank weapons.

For a start, in real life, tanks with AT loads and design can carry HE shells. That's part of why it's breaking my immersion. I recommend some bolster of soft attack for tanks with AT guns.

A light tank attack of 500 light tanks against thousands of dug in grenadiers with machineguns and rpgs, bolstered by real AT guns, is losing thousands of troops in one turn consistently (hmm, maybe 50% casualty rate). I can post screenshots if necessary.

Exactly how does Vic imagine that this admittedly serious attack, but with lighter armoured tanks, can smash through a fortified infantry position with plenty of AT so easily? I recommend a review and reduction of the soft attack value for tanks with howitzers.

I've also seen some YouTube videos echoing the sentiment that light tanks are just too good.

I don't know the game well enough to really micro analyse it though I could try. But I know the end result in-game feels really off to me. I only post this because I love the game.

[Thrake]

Light tanks are the single most poxerful units in the early game but end up obsolete by the mid game.

[Soar_Slitherine]

Oh, the problem was that light tanks are too powerful? I was confused because the original post complains about their power relative to medium tanks, but medium tanks are objectively more powerful than light tanks (except arguably in cost-efficiency depending on the situation, and in power relative to other models that have usually become available by the same time).

Note that both models have the choice between howitzer or high-velocity guns, respective to whether you want to design them to fight soft or hard targets.

For a start, in real life, tanks with AT loads and design can carry HE shells. That's part of why it's breaking my immersion. I recommend some bolster of soft attack for tanks with AT guns.

I agree that high-velocity guns getting only 25% soft attack makes zero sense from a realism perspective. I think it's probably there to encourage combined arms by enabling infantry to effectively tank hits in combat between tanks designed to fight other tanks, as the game lacks any explicit bonus for having infantry and vehicles working together in the same combat.

A light tank attack of 500 light tanks against thousands of dug in grenadiers with machineguns and rpgs, bolstered by real AT guns, is losing thousands of troops in one turn consistently (hmm, maybe 50% casualty rate). I can post screenshots if necessary.

That sounds about right given the game mechanics. 500 light tanks is two brigades' worth, a very formidable force. A standard-sized foot brigade has between 4000 and 5000 troops on the frontline, but costs far less to produce and supply.

[kojusoki1]

Maybe both Lt and Med tanks should have no horwitzers at all? Just build assualt guns instead?
I know tanks do have HE ammo - but that is already reflected in the game mechanism - that even without hrowtizer, tanks with velocity guns can damage infantry significantly.

Tanks have great armour so it is difficult to attack them with infantry alone, but lt tanks ALONE should not be an attacking force (mind yes, it is a formidable force, but tanks alone, without inf support, probably would be knocked out easly with RPGs - Grozny, Ukraine).

Currently, puerly on mechanism, if you only have oil, just use Lt tanks.

[Soar_Slitherine]

In the current beta patch (due to be released as the live build in a few days), pre-laser-gun tanks are balanced by their ammo use being high enough that it's not logistically viable to rely exclusively on them. They aren't any worse at winning attacks, but they can no longer attack in massive numbers every turn.

[SwordOfJustice]

Excellent!