Fighters refuel with 40% fuel, leaving the CAP area.

[flex0r]

So I can't seem to understand the behaviour in this case, it might be a bug but I want to check if someone have noticed this before.
The CAP mission is set up with F18 assigned to it (ignore the loadout please), same with the refuel missions.
The problem is that the fighters always leave the CAP and the prosecution area and head to the refuel area when they have around 40% fuel.
I tried to play with settings in the mission editor and no matter if I choose the treshold to 10% for starting looking for a tanker, they still leave the area with 40% fuel.

This ends in having no fighters on the prosecution/cap area for a significant time and making the mission obsolete.

Is that a bug or am I missing something with the settings?

Jets weird behaviour.7z

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[ClaudeJ]

Hey there,

could it be that this setting defines your lower threshold and may override whatever setting you have in the other setting panel?

Capture.JPG (13.56 KiB) Viewed 1153 times

Your CAP mission is unmanned, and your Hornets are on an ASuW patrol type of mission, by the way.

PS: how do you measure in percent how much fuel they are leaving the area with?

Cheers

[TyphoonFr]

Bingo 40% (in your case) is the amount of fuel that allows you to reach the nearest base or refueling tanker.Reserve fuel is not taken into account.
Bringing the supply tankers closer/further away or the base will vary the Bingo.Your tanker pilots to the north are courageous.

Sans titre.jpg (1.81 MiB) Viewed 1120 times

Loose stuff;
Your operating zone is located more than 1000 nm
Your F18s do not have enough fuel for patrol missions which forces the planes to waste fuel to search but also identify contacts.
I would replace the F18s with a P8 Poseidon, that's their job, they are made for that and have more fuel than the F18s. But they will be defenseless against opposing fighters.
The P8s have more powerful ELINT sensors than the F-18s and can detect a Radar from further away and therefore ‘slowly’ move out of range.
The opposing hunters have the same fuel problem as you.

For the F18 I would use "Naval ASW Strike" and "Air intercept" or escort missions (for A-A configuration),
This causes the planes to take off only on hostile contacts already identified, no waste of fuel but a longer processing time for the target and perhaps too late.

0Sans titre.jpg (910.84 KiB) Viewed 1120 times

-Mission Triggler on Hostile (they will only take off when hostile contact is detected)
-Minimum and Maximun Strike Radius allows selection at what distance the targets must be from the F18's starting base for them to take off

I set the WRA of the ASuW weapons so that the flight taking off fires all its missiles at a single target, so that the flight fires all its missiles at once and returns directly.

The chinese ships have powerful 100 and 76 mm cannon, you are limited with 57 and 30mm but your AA missile RIM162 (25nm), RIM116 (6nm but they have the same range as the Chinese cannons) and the Helfire ( mH60R) can also engage surface ships.
Use Sam in ASuw Mode:

Rebuild.png (82.39 KiB) Viewed 1120 times

The scenario is long, don't be in a hurry.
I maintain contact with the hostiles, stay at a distance from the ships and use the AGM-84k aircraft.




Sorry if this is long but maybe I was wrong in thinking that this would help you.

[flex0r]

Hey there,

could it be that this setting defines your lower threshold and may override whatever setting you have in the other setting panel?
Capture.JPG

That is what makes me think that it's a bug. No matter what setting I use in this panel (should overwrite other RTB or refuel settings) does not change the behaviour of the hornets. Even if I choose the threshold to 10%, they still leave the CAP area and head to the tankers while they have 40%.
So basically with this setting to 10%, the hornets should stay in the CAP area until their fuel level reaches 10%, then head to the tankers.

10% fuel is enough for them to reach the tankers and so they spent more time on the CAP area.

[flex0r]

Bingo 40% (in your case) is the amount of fuel that allows you to reach the nearest base or refueling tanker.Reserve fuel is not taken into account.
Bringing the supply tankers closer/further away or the base will vary the Bingo.Your tanker pilots to the north are courageous.

This is what bothers me and I don't understand. Even if I set refuel threshold to 10%, the hornets still head to the tankers while they have 40% fuel. They should spent the time on station and when they reach 10% fuel they should go for tankers. However they don't do it, no matter what setting I use they still head to the tankers while have 40%. Also 10% fuel is enough for them to reach the refueling area so this should not be an issue.
Also I agree with you when u say the tanker pilots are courageous. IMO the refuel area is also way to close to the combat/prosecution area, thus putting them at great risk. However even with them so close I can't seem to make the mission work, if I put them even further south the F18 will be absolutely useless on station because they won't have range. Even with tankers so close the hornets spend little time on station.

Loose stuff;
Your operating zone is located more than 1000 nm
Your F18s do not have enough fuel for patrol missions which forces the planes to waste fuel to search but also identify contacts.
I would replace the F18s with a P8 Poseidon, that's their job, they are made for that and have more fuel than the F18s. But they will be defenseless against opposing fighters.
The P8s have more powerful ELINT sensors than the F-18s and can detect a Radar from further away and therefore ‘slowly’ move out of range.
The opposing hunters have the same fuel problem as you.

This is the beauty of the game. There are multiple posibilities to reach the goal. I focused on the hornets because I want to use them for prosecution area since I have so many and with good loadouts. I have tried playing the scenario with the focus on the P8, but they are very vulnerable and every time I end up loosing a lot of them, even when keep them close to the DDG.

For the F18 I would use "Naval ASW Strike" and "Air intercept" or escort missions (for A-A configuration),
This causes the planes to take off only on hostile contacts already identified, no waste of fuel but a longer processing time for the target and perhaps too late.

Wont this cause them to take off, fly a significant distance and if the target contact disappears or lands for fuel/gets distroyed the hornet will turn back and land, thus ending in a loop?

-Mission Triggler on Hostile (they will only take off when hostile contact is detected)
-Minimum and Maximun Strike Radius allows selection at what distance the targets must be from the F18's starting base for them to take off

I set the WRA of the ASuW weapons so that the flight taking off fires all its missiles at a single target, so that the flight fires all its missiles at once and returns directly.

The chinese ships have powerful 100 and 76 mm cannon, you are limited with 57 and 30mm but your AA missile RIM162 (25nm), RIM116 (6nm but they have the same range as the Chinese cannons) and the Helfire ( mH60R) can also engage surface ships.
Use Sam in ASuw Mode:


The scenario is long, don't be in a hurry.
I maintain contact with the hostiles, stay at a distance from the ships and use the AGM-84k aircraft.

This works well in this scenario, I don't have problems with destroying PLAN ships, I engage them with the hellfires and cannons but great advice with SAm, I did not try it before and I will definetly do it.

However I focus so much on the issue with refueling the fighters because it bothers me and I feel that is an esential part of the game. I am a beginner in this game and refueling efficient seems to me like is one crucial mechanic that I must know well for aerial warfare.

Sorry if this is long but maybe I was wrong in thinking that this would help you.

I absolutelly appreciate the time you took to explain me things and I thank you for the explanations, long texts does not bother me at all.

[TyphoonFr]

In your backup
Your planes are in “Engaged Offensive” status from takeoff, as soon as they detect an identified contact, throttle it to Full and burn their fuel excessively (more than 115 kg/min).
As soon as they leave for the tanker, the throttle switches to Cruise (67 kg/min), more economical.
Bingo takes priority over the AAR settings located in the mission setting, so only the settings up to bingo are taken into account (from 100% to 40% in your case)

In your save, the planes leave very early towards the tankers and some arrive there having used the reserves then they leave the throttle on Full

Try this, it will calm the pilots:
Set the speed (cruise) and attack distance (2000) that they will use in “Engaged Offensive” Status

Sa dns titre.png (555.2 KiB) Viewed 1059 times

I noticed that towards a tanker, the bingo is triggered about 15 minutes earlier, if there are people at the pump. This is not the case when it returns to a base. This further accentuates your problems

[flex0r]

In your backup
Your planes are in “Engaged Offensive” status from takeoff, as soon as they detect an identified contact, throttle it to Full and burn their fuel excessively (more than 115 kg/min).
As soon as they leave for the tanker, the throttle switches to Cruise (67 kg/min), more economical.
Bingo takes priority over the AAR settings located in the mission setting, so only the settings up to bingo are taken into account (from 100% to 40% in your case)

In your save, the planes leave very early towards the tankers and some arrive there having used the reserves then they leave the throttle on Full

Try this, it will calm the pilots:
Set the speed (cruise) and attack distance (2000) that they will use in “Engaged Offensive” Status

I noticed that towards a tanker, the bingo is triggered about 15 minutes earlier, if there are people at the pump. This is not the case when it returns to a base. This further accentuates your problems

I have tried this settings and I cannot feel a difference. Same behaviour as they head for the tanker with a lot of fuel in their tanks.
There are many ways to play the scenario and avoid these problems, but I was insisting on this because I want to understand how refuel works since is such an important mechanic in the game. It feels like I would hit this kind of issue in any scenario where the base is long distance from the station(like 1000nm) and I have to set up tanking missions on the way.

[rvseydlitz]

Greetings
It seems here that the -18s reach bingo fuel around that 40% level. Their loadout burns fuel at a higher rate than normal CAP (Air-to-air) loadout would.
This isn't a big, simply a case of their loadout not really matching their duties so burb a high rate of fuel making "bingo" fuel level be near that 40%.

Most of the fun though is in doing what you are doing and experimenting. Enjoy!

[boogabooga]

This isn't a big, simply a case of their loadout not really matching their duties so burb a high rate of fuel making "bingo" fuel level be near that 40%.

Most of the fun though is in doing what you are doing and experimenting. Enjoy!

Yes, but...

I wish more mission designers would let the user choose their own starting loadouts and thus what roles to allocate their multirole aircraft to. BeirutDude's missions were really good in this regard.

[ClaudeJ]

Has the issue been confirmed?

I can't seem to reproduce it.

(...)
I wish more mission designers would let the user choose their own starting loadouts and thus what roles to allocate their multirole aircraft to. BeirutDude's missions were really good in this regard.

Check out Kushan's Iran Strike Scenario

[BeirutDude]

I wish more mission designers would let the user choose their own starting loadouts and thus what roles to allocate their multirole aircraft to. BeirutDude's missions were really good in this regard.

Thank you. I had tried to let the player make the decisions, as much as possible.

[Blast33]

Play in edit mode and it solves your problems