Artillery Overhaul

[Clux]

I'm not going to give concrete values as it would need in game testing, but I think there are several problems with artillery currently in game:

Artillery

Pros:

• Goes up to 300mm
• Good defensive values, great for defending against infantry in hard terrain (woods, hills, etc.)
• Helpful in early-mid game against entrenched infantry (even if it doesn't score kills, hits lowers enemy entrenchment)
• Easy to increase its HP due using infantry armor, optimized HCA (Heavy Combat Armor) its waaay cheaper than mechanized artillery and its sturdier, only goes better from there

Cons:

• It's expensive, if you're fighting on a mostly plain planet you're way better spending metal/IP on light tanks
• Its tech tree upgrades increases the number of attacks per turn, not max damage (cluster bombs also lower hard damage)
• Has only 1 hex range, making it very vulnerable to enemy counter attacks
• Doesn't have an end game option (nuclear artillery when?)
• On an artillery war you can't win on the offensive, defensive side will always have superior attack scores, so you must relay on tanks or aircraft (good luck if you're in the jungle)
• Gets movement penalties the bigger the caliber you field, so using trucks to move them its a must

Now lets go to the mechanized artillery

Pros:

• Relative quick movement (depends on gun/armor/engine size, rapidly increasing the cost)
• Hard armor, easier to survive artillery duels (becomes a con by mid game, as infantry armor gets better)
• Doesn't lose too much readiness when attacking (in comparison to regular artillery)

Cons:

• Expensive
• Very vulnerable to aircraft or RPG infantry
• 88mm its the max size cannon, making it very lackluster after mid game
• Has 100 max attack/defense scores, contrary to artillery which has 100/200 max attack/defense scores.
• Gets extremely heavy if using max size cannon and putting more than 25mm metal armor, needs polymer armor to have decent movement scores

Now than we have a bit of background of both units, lets go to my proposal:

I think artillery should be split into two different units, field artillery and siege artillery, the first one should be used as a quick moving artillery piece for frontline duty, and siege artillery should be used on stalemates (for example on a heavily entrenched enemy) or to bombard enemy cities (for when you don't have rockets yet).

Field artillery

Differences between field and regular artillery:

• Min caliber 60mm, max caliber 105mm (it could go from 60-75-90-105mm)
• Its movement speed penalty relative to infantry its better (goes from 0-15-30-50%)
• Can only use HE and HEAT (we will talk about it later) ordinance.
• With the 60mm cannon, has a lower metal/IP cost than a tank with 60mm gun/25mm armor/light engine, of at very least 30% lower price

Siege artillery

Differences between siege and regular artillery:

• Min caliber 130mm, max caliber 240mm (It could go from 130-150-180-210-240mm)
• Its movement speed penalty relative to infantry its worse (goes from 75-90-100%), needs trucks to move.
• Can use HE, HEAT and nuclear ordinance.
• Has a higher structural damage relative to other weapons (In theory only missile launchers should be better)
• High entrenchment and readiness damage (In theory only rocket launchers should be better)
• Higher base max attack score of 200, but lower defense 100
• With 180mm and upper calibers, the max range increases to 2
• Receives 25% hp penalty in attacks received checks against artillery (so its weaker in artillery duels)

With these changes I believe artillery would be used more often and would be more useful, as field artillery would be used with grenadier and assault formations and siege artillery in independent artillery formations, when you need to breakthrough the enemy lines or want to reduce to rumble the enemy city.

But I would also like to propose a few changes to mechanized artillery:

• Min caliber 60mm, max caliber 140mm (It could go from 60-80-100-120-140)
• Reduced base weight, at 60mm gun/25mm armor/light engine it should have the same weight as a light tank
• Higher base max attack score of 200
• Receives a 25% hp boost in attacks received checks against artillery (so its stronger in artillery duels, its main purpose its to shoot and scoot, makes sense they're harder to hit)
• Can use HE, HEAT and guided ordinance (more on that later)
• Min attack per turn of 2, every attack per turn "upgrade" (as when the attack score goes from 200 to 400 but gets capped down to 200) increases it by 2 (So, it would get 2-4-6-8-10 attacks per turn, contrary to artillery which increases in one by one)

With these changes mechanized artillery would be very useful in mechanized attacks (as intended IRL) and would be a great asset to counter enemy field artillery (so we don't stagnate and have to wait for siege artillery, unless we're in the middle of the jungle/mountains).

Now, about the ordinance changes, I believe there could be some changes.

First, HEAT ammunition, it would be in the 2nd tech group, it would change the hard attack/defense score to be the same as soft attack/defense score, the reason for this its than IRL artillery adapted to the use of enemy armor, and while its not going to be as good as AT guns or RPG infantry, it would make it have some chance to destroy enemy light armor/APCs or other mechanized artillery.

Guided ordinance would be unlocked further down in the tech tree, it would change the max attack/defense score of mechanized artillery to 400/400, increasing its effectiveness against HCA and further infantry armor upgrades, it would also increase the structural damage done to assets.

Nuclear artillery would be unlocked by the end of the game, it would require using the highest caliber (240mm) and would be very deadly, it would be quite expensive, needing metal, IP, rare metals and machinery parts to produce (for balance purposes)

I would like to see what others think about these changes, which would overall make artillery stronger but still dependent on hard terrain and units to back them up, as they would be mostly "softeners" so a breakthrough can be made in the enemy defenses.

[Don_Kiyote]

Well considered, thanks.

Artillery will also have to be affected by atmosphere, gravity, and maybe even spin. So that's another factor.

I haven't played with Artillery near as much as you seem to have. I mainly use it to annoy an enemy hex when I can't directly attack it, using relatively small calibers, in the early-mid game.

Regarding caliber, another thing that comes to mind is that, in SE, size and effectiveness (attack/defense values) remain correlated through the whole game, afaik. But irl, more efficient and effective cannons through the ages kind of become *smaller* (in *mm's) in modern warfare, while the rounds have evolved more dramatically.

tbh I don't know much specific history of Artillery. What I know is from general war history. I know tank rounds have really gotten complicated since WWII, though.

Someone should read a book about this, to get the facts straight. But in-game, yes, techs for cannon rounds (HEAT, Guided, etc.) would be appropriate. Maybe also some fire control tech for long and super long ranges. So maybe a slightly more complicated model design process, too...

[solops]

I regularly build 180mm mechanized arty. Why do you say 88 mm is the max?