German Separate Artillery SUs Manpower

[Wiedrock]

I only looked at 2 of the Artillery TOEs so far, but in both the Manpower only accounted for the basic three Batteries Manpower, all the other Man seem to be missing?
Niehorster lists them as using those KSTNs:

vol_4-2
http://niehorster.org/011_germany/books_gwwii/index_vols.htm

K3_mot.png (65.49 KiB) Viewed 977 times

In Game the TOE looks like this:

K3_TOE_ingame.png (103.63 KiB) Viewed 977 times

I managed to find the KSTNs of the Batteries and the HQ Battery. They may be changed, it's 1944 KSTNs, so a little grain of salt is involved. But it should give a general idea on how it looked like.
Here you can see about how a 20tonne Column looked like (about 62Men).
I've also used this page to guesstimate the missing Manpower for the HQ (may be flawed).
So Currently this TOE has 370Men, but the three Batteries (3xgreen) would give combined already 3x165=495Men.
Additionally there's the Collumn missing, the HQ and the HQ Battery.
In sum from what I see the Manpower should rather be at about 660'ish (some KSTNs are completely lost as it seems so there's always little leeway I suppose).

[Wiedrock]

That's the first one I looked at nice hand painting, huh?
In game the TOE [OB:836] has 388Men.

[Wiedrock]

http://www.niehorster.org/011_germany/4 ... 11-41.html
http://www.niehorster.org/011_germany/4 ... 11-41.html

[MechFO]

I only looked at 2 of the Artillery TOEs so far, but in both the Manpower only accounted for the basic three Batteries Manpower, all the other Man seem to be missing?
Niehorster lists them as using those KSTNs:
K3_mot.png
In Game the TOE looks like this:
K3_TOE_ingame.png
I managed to find the KSTNs of the Batteries and the HQ Battery. They may be changed, it's 1944 KSTNs, so a little grain of salt is involved. But it should give a general idea on how it looked like.
Here you can see about how a 20tonne Column looked like (about 62Men).
I've also used this page to guesstimate the missing Manpower for the HQ (may be flawed).
So Currently this TOE has 370Men, but the three Batteries (3xgreen) would give combined already 3x165=495Men.
Additionally there's the Collumn missing, the HQ and the HQ Battery.
In sum from what I see the Manpower should rather be at about 660'ish (some KSTNs are completely lost as it seems so there's always little leeway I suppose).

Manpower
In March 41 II/57, with 12x10cm K, reported
Stab 56 Men, 27 Veh
Nachrichten 51 Men, 15 Veh
AVT 10 Men, 15 Veh
3 Bttr 462 Men, 126 Veh
Nachschub 141, 38
Total 720 Men 221 Veh
by August 41 this seems to have been shrunk down to about 675(II/62). 01.10.1943 for 3x10cm k, 6xsFH, establishment strength was 625. 01.10.1943 Schw Art Abt 850 (mixed at the time) had and establishment of 580 men. Another unit, Schw Art Abt 848 shows an establishment strength of only 489 men for 9xsFH on 1.11.1943.
21cm unit Schw Art Abt 854 had 653 men while 859 had 629 men for 9 guns on 01.10.1943. 859 is noted as missing its munitions column.

Number of Officers/NonComs are similar, number of enlisted (inkl. Hiwi) makes the difference. The 848 and 854 strength report show very few HiWi's leading me to believe they are missing their munitions columns, also the similar number of 854 with 859. 854's is confirmed to be missing 01.12.1943.

In game these seem to run at 400-550 men, especially the 10cm K units seem very undersized at 364. Maybe add some support squads at least to the 10cm K units. Also mentioning this because some of the units disbanded in 1944 were down to 10-20% of establishment judging from the numbers transferred

At that time I wasn't aware of GermandocsinRussia.

This has more information but late war only.


https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/4

[Wiedrock]

At that time I wasn't aware of GermandocsinRussia.

This has more information but late war only.


https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/4

Link is "broken". Or?

And yes, early stuff is rare.

[MechFO]

At that time I wasn't aware of GermandocsinRussia.

This has more information but late war only.


https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/4

Link is "broken". Or?

And yes, early stuff is rare.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/4

Working now, but no luck with any mapower totals, I just checked.

[Wiedrock]

Found in BArch RH 2/1310.
Numbers from 31.10.1944.

[Wiedrock]

Always using the 3x4guns where applicable instead of 2x6guns.
If for a certain TOE using 2x6 would make more sense in general, tell me which one it is.

GD Artillery Battalion for some reason has 8x leFH and 4x 150mm Werfers in game. This battalion was formed from IV. of the Panzer Artillery Regiment of the Division in December. The Division reported the IV. with 3x4 leFH in December, so not sure why the game has the 4xWerfers.

I have no info on the Afrika SUs, they have a mix, including captured guns. Most likely manpower is a bit too low but I can't say for sure.

[Denniss]

3x4 to 2x6 change was a very latewar "optimization" to save some manpower

[Denniss]

Made soem changes

Code: Select all

0787	44a V Art Bde	150->133 Support
0788	44b V Art Bde	125->98 Support
0823	41 mot Can Bn	14->21 Support, ends 8/44, upgrades to new 0825
0824	41 Can Bn	14->16 Support
0826	41 mot leFH Bn	14->18 Support
0827	42 mot leFH Bn	14->18 Support, ends 8/44, upgrades to new 0828
0829	41 leFH How Bn	14->12 Support
0829	42 leFH How Bn	14->12 Support
0832	41a mot sFH Bn	20->21 Support, ends 8/44, upgrades to new 0835
0833	41b mot sFH Bn	20->14 Support
0836	41 mot Gun Bn	14->24 Support
0838	41 mot How Bn	14->26 Support
0840	41 mot Mix Bn	18->22 Support, ends 8/44, upgrades to new 0841
0842	41 mot Gun Bn	16->23 Support
0844	41a mot M18 Bn	20->34 Support
0845	41b mot M18 Bn	20->26 Support
0847	41 mot Gun Bn	14->26 Support
0861	41a Mrt Wrf Bn	14->19 Support
0862	42a Mrt Wrf Bn	24->18x NbW40, 14->19 Support
0864	41 Wrf Bn	14->22 Support
0865	43 Wrf Bn	14->22 Support
0869	41a HWerf Bn	20->18x Werfer, 14->22 Support
0871	42 210 Wrf Bn	14->23 Support
0872	43 210 Wrf Bn	14->23 Support
0874	42 280 HWrf Bn	14->23 Support
0875	43 280 HWrf Bn	renamed 43a 300mm, 280/320mm ->300mm Werfer, 14->23 Support
0879	43 300 HWrf Bn	16->23 Support
1262	42 SS Werf Bn	15->30 Support
1263	42a SS Werf Bn	5->4x 50mm Pak, 18->24x 150mm Werfer, 15->27 Support, 210mm Werfer removed
NEW
0825	44 K18 mot Hvy Cannon Bn	as 1941 version but with reduced Support
0828	44 Mot leFH Howitzer Bn		as 1941 version but with reduced Support
0835	44 Mot sFH Howitzer Bn		as 1941 version but with reduced Support
0844	44 Mot Mixed Artillery Bn	as 1941 version  but 8+4->6+6 guns and reduced support