Bombardment TF Problem

[Chris21wen]

Situation here is this Bpmb TF will not carryout it's orders.

As you can see it has to move 6 hexes to Ndeni, it is set to direct absolute has a leader with naval 67 and agg 58. The unseen ship is the Yamato. The other two TF are the KB set to follow with an escorting surface conbat TF following the KB. The KB is set to trail 0 hexes but stand off 3.

Ndeni is level 5 with many ac. I know there are no US naval air assets, I sank them three turns ago (that's a different story) but they are many land based ac on Ndeni.

I tried many different combinations of orders for all TF but the only thing that worked was to remove the two DMS from the TF.

Now I've carried out many previous bomb mission with DMS before and have had no problems. The only difference here is the two DMS joined the TF while at sea, all the others were part of the bomb TF when it was formed in port.

I don't know if this is a game quirk or just a screwed up save. Anybody else suffered a similar problem.

Capture.JPG (93.58 KiB) Viewed 811 times

[Yaab]

Those DMS seem slow at 19 knots. Can they really go 5 hexes at max speed, and have enough endurance to return to Truk?

[dr.hal]

The KB is set to trail 0 hexes but stand off 3.

I'm not sure how you do this...the KB is set to trail the bombardment force by "0" hexes yet at the end standoff 3 hexes? DoI understand you correctly?

[Sardaukar]

It's in TF settings when TF is set to follow another.

You can set for trailing distance and stand off distance when followed TF reaches target.

[dr.hal]

It's in TF settings when TF is set to follow another.

You can set for trailing distance and stand off distance when followed TF reaches target.

are you sure the standoff range number is in hexes or 1000s of yards? For bombardment its yards IIRC....

[Chris21wen]

It's in TF settings when TF is set to follow another.

You can set for trailing distance and stand off distance when followed TF reaches target.

are you sure the standoff range number is in hexes or 1000s of yards? For bombardment its yards IIRC....

Your confusing two thing.

One is bombment range. In the above pic bottom right which is set to 12,000yds. This is used by the bomb TF limiting how close the TF is to shore and hence both defense and offense gun ranges. Plus, the further out it is the less likely it will be they hit a mine (I think).

Any TF entering a shore hex is subject to shore batteries which is why following TF can be set to stand off a number of hexes and this is set by 'TF Routing'. See below.

Capture.JPG (43.56 KiB) Viewed 743 times

[Chris21wen]

Those DMS seem slow at 19 knots. Can they really go 5 hexes at max speed, and have enough endurance to return to Truk?

Oops your right, missed that and it is probably the cause but ther'e two possible arguments against it. I've carried out previous attack but admittedly I've not monitored the distance of the full speed run. The other is it's took the TF two turns to go approx 5 hexes from the point at which I ordered the mission.

As I removed the DMS then it is probably the cause.

[dr.hal]

It's in TF settings when TF is set to follow another.

You can set for trailing distance and stand off distance when followed TF reaches target.

are you sure the standoff range number is in hexes or 1000s of yards? For bombardment its yards IIRC....

Your confusing two thing.

One is bombment range. In the above pic bottom right which is set to 12,000yds. This is used by the bomb TF limiting how close the TF is to shore and hence both defense and offense gun ranges. Plus, the further out it is the less likely it will be they hit a mine (I think).

Any TF entering a shore hex is subject to shore batteries which is why following TF can be set to stand off a number of hexes and this is set by 'TF Routing'. See below.
Capture.JPG

got it thanks...

[Marauder11]

Situation here is this Bpmb TF will not carryout it's orders.

As you can see it has to move 6 hexes to Ndeni, it is set to direct absolute has a leader with naval 67 and agg 58. The unseen ship is the Yamato. The other two TF are the KB set to follow with an escorting surface conbat TF following the KB. The KB is set to trail 0 hexes but stand off 3.

Ndeni is level 5 with many ac. I know there are no US naval air assets, I sank them three turns ago (that's a different story) but they are many land based ac on Ndeni.

I tried many different combinations of orders for all TF but the only thing that worked was to remove the two DMS from the TF.

Now I've carried out many previous bomb mission with DMS before and have had no problems. The only difference here is the two DMS joined the TF while at sea, all the others were part of the bomb TF when it was formed in port.

I don't know if this is a game quirk or just a screwed up save. Anybody else suffered a similar problem.

Capture.JPG

What's the ammunition status of the TF? If they don't have adequate amount of ammo they won't bombard.

[Chris21wen]

Situation here is this Bpmb TF will not carryout it's orders.

As you can see it has to move 6 hexes to Ndeni, it is set to direct absolute has a leader with naval 67 and agg 58. The unseen ship is the Yamato. The other two TF are the KB set to follow with an escorting surface conbat TF following the KB. The KB is set to trail 0 hexes but stand off 3.

Ndeni is level 5 with many ac. I know there are no US naval air assets, I sank them three turns ago (that's a different story) but they are many land based ac on Ndeni.

I tried many different combinations of orders for all TF but the only thing that worked was to remove the two DMS from the TF.

Now I've carried out many previous bomb mission with DMS before and have had no problems. The only difference here is the two DMS joined the TF while at sea, all the others were part of the bomb TF when it was formed in port.

I don't know if this is a game quirk or just a screwed up save. Anybody else suffered a similar problem.

Capture.JPG

What's the ammunition status of the TF? If they don't have adequate amount of ammo they won't bombard.

Full apart from AA was about 75%

[Sardaukar]

Sometimes you need to set TF's threat tolerance higher.

[Chris21wen]

Sometimes you need to set TF's threat tolerance higher.

Yeah I know, had tht many times. I reran the turn about 10 times with verios settings. Tolerance just one in fact the pic is that one. As you said it must have been the DMS speed but why not before. One of those things I think.

[Sardaukar]

Sometimes it's bit like Facebook status: "It's complicated".

[Chris21wen]

Sometimes it's bit like Facebook status: "It's complicated".

There you've got me, I don't use it

[Bella]

Check and see if a replenishment TF is assigned to follow them. I found that even after re-fueling, the Rep TF will sometimes continue to be listed as meeting the Bombardment TF. This will put a kink in the Bombardment TFs movement. Happened to me!

[Chris21wen]

Check and see if a replenishment TF is assigned to follow them. I found that even after re-fueling, the Rep TF will sometimes continue to be listed as meeting the Bombardment TF. This will put a kink in the Bombardment TFs movement. Happened to me!

No it wasn't, nothing following.

[Chickenboy]

Old recollection here, so forgive me if this is not germane...

The whole "multiple interdigitating TFs involved" scheme was always difficult to sort with bombardment (and other) missions. One domino fails and there's a cascade of conflicting orders that confound the primary TF orders. I would try to re-order the TF to *just* allow the bombardment TF to do its thing by itself. No replenishment TF trailing, no CVTF relying on the bombardment TF for movement. Simplify and reduce. Bombardment TF by itself and nothing else following, waiting for, standing off-nothing.

As others have stated, I'd also reconsider the use of the slower DMs in the bombardment TF. With them, the bombardment TF is likely recalibrating possible movement to bombard at night after slowly moving into the hex. If the DMs can't move sufficiently to make this happen (that 10 knots differential makes a big difference in terms of hexes / movement phase), they will likely either not move at all or sit a fixed distance from the target trying to (and failing) to recalibrate movement sufficient to allow bombardment in the night phase-which won't happen because of their distance and slow speed.

It goes without saying that the TF should be set on 'do not react' and maximal threat tolerances. Reduce the standoff range for the bombardment TF too (you have it set at 12,000 feet, who's to say that the maximum effective range of the DM guns can reach 12,000 feet in a bombardment?) to maybe half that. Again, consider replacing the DMs with more capable DDs or CLs.

These are some of the things I would change.