[WAD] An error in the operation of RVR sensors in beta version 1.06.1405

[foxid259]

Game Beta 1.05.1405 CIV.
I noticed that the sensors of the plane (RWR Radar Warning Reciwer), which have an average range of 120 miles, - in most cases they do not see radars, which have operating bands A.Is it meant to be, or is it some kind of mistake ?

On screenshot 1, I have placed 10 radars with different operating bands. On course 0 and on course 180 there are radars with- operating bands A. (Tall King and Spoon Rest).

I used 4 planes - without weapons, with built in them RWR Radar Warning Reciwer. (Su-27P, Mig-29. Su-24m, F-15c).
As you can see from screenshot 2, the radars ( Tall King, Spoon Rest, Flat Face, Tall Rack, Tin Trap) - not detected by the planes.These radars have operating bands - А, B, C.

So, RWR Radar Warning Reciwer - it does not wet the signal, radars with operating bands - А, B, C.

[caelunshun]

I think this is intentional behavior; RWRs typically operate in higher frequencies used by fire control radars. You would need an ELINT sensor to detect lower-frequency radiation.

[Blast33]

Agree

[foxid259]

I think this is intentional behavior; RWRs typically operate in higher frequencies used by fire control radars. You would need an ELINT sensor to detect lower-frequency radiation.

I can't agree with that.

First, in previous versions of the game, the RWR sensor always noted the exposure of the aircraft by any radar.

Secondly, in Soviet aircraft, exactly SPO-Beryoza always gives information about radiation by radars, which use all frequencies.

Thirdly, ELINT sensors are used on reconnaissance aircraft.

[thewood1]

As the devs always ask, can you post the scenario? I still have a couple older versions and will compare.

[caelunshun]

I think this is intentional behavior; RWRs typically operate in higher frequencies used by fire control radars. You would need an ELINT sensor to detect lower-frequency radiation.

I can't agree with that.

First, in previous versions of the game, the RWR sensor always noted the exposure of the aircraft by any radar.

This is true, but I think it was changed in the latest update, which is IMO an improvement in realism.

Secondly, in Soviet aircraft, exactly SPO-Beryoza always gives information about radiation by radars, which use all frequencies.

There are hidden "FrequencyUpper/Lower" fields in the database that determine which radar bands a sensor can operate in (not sure if they're respected in sim or not). If you have a source that backs up this claim, then you can file an issue on the DB tracker to update the values.

Thirdly, ELINT sensors are used on reconnaissance aircraft.

Yup, because from what I understand, listening on lower frequencies generally requires larger antenna sizes.

The purpose of an RWR is to warn of incoming missiles. Low-frequency radars lack the precision to guide missiles, so I would guess there is little justification for spending the extra size/weight/power on low-band-capable RWRs.

More modern fighters like the F-35 do have ELINT built in, which is one of their main improvements in situational awareness over previous generations.

[foxid259]

I think this is intentional behavior; RWRs typically operate in higher frequencies used by fire control radars. You would need an ELINT sensor to detect lower-frequency radiation.

I can't agree with that.

First, in previous versions of the game, the RWR sensor always noted the exposure of the aircraft by any radar.

This is true, but I think it was changed in the latest update, which is IMO an improvement in realism.

Secondly, in Soviet aircraft, exactly SPO-Beryoza always gives information about radiation by radars, which use all frequencies.

There are hidden "FrequencyUpper/Lower" fields in the database that determine which radar bands a sensor can operate in (not sure if they're respected in sim or not). If you have a source that backs up this claim, then you can file an issue on the DB tracker to update the values.

Thirdly, ELINT sensors are used on reconnaissance aircraft.

Yup, because from what I understand, listening on lower frequencies generally requires larger antenna sizes.

The purpose of an RWR is to warn of incoming missiles. Low-frequency radars lack the precision to guide missiles, so I would guess there is little justification for spending the extra size/weight/power on low-band-capable RWRs.

More modern fighters like the F-35 do have ELINT built in, which is one of their main improvements in situational awareness over previous generations.

I don't understand the point of the discussion. I saw some behavior in the beta version of the game that I believe is a bug in the game. If the developers introduced a new function so that the RWR should not see such radars, then it would be written about it, or they would see my information - and could explain that it should be so, then I have no questions. And here, people are trying to convince me that it should be so...

[thewood1]

I can't agree with that.

First, in previous versions of the game, the RWR sensor always noted the exposure of the aircraft by any radar.

This is true, but I think it was changed in the latest update, which is IMO an improvement in realism.

Secondly, in Soviet aircraft, exactly SPO-Beryoza always gives information about radiation by radars, which use all frequencies.

There are hidden "FrequencyUpper/Lower" fields in the database that determine which radar bands a sensor can operate in (not sure if they're respected in sim or not). If you have a source that backs up this claim, then you can file an issue on the DB tracker to update the values.

Thirdly, ELINT sensors are used on reconnaissance aircraft.

Yup, because from what I understand, listening on lower frequencies generally requires larger antenna sizes.

The purpose of an RWR is to warn of incoming missiles. Low-frequency radars lack the precision to guide missiles, so I would guess there is little justification for spending the extra size/weight/power on low-band-capable RWRs.

More modern fighters like the F-35 do have ELINT built in, which is one of their main improvements in situational awareness over previous generations.

I don't understand the point of the discussion. I saw some behavior in the beta version of the game that I believe is a bug in the game. If the developers introduced a new function so that the RWR should not see such radars, then it would be written about it, or they would see my information - and could explain that it should be so, then I have no questions. And here, people are trying to convince me that it should be so...

Again, if you really want to prove your point and not just get mad, post the scenario you created. I can run it in both versions.

[Nikel]

There is a scenario posted.

[foxid259]

There is a scenario posted.

The saved scenario is in the archive - in the first message.

[thewood1]

As you can see...its working basically the same between 1328.17 and 1405.

From blue side only a few radar are detected.

Screenshot 2024-08-18 133409.jpg (1.09 MiB) Viewed 567 times

From red side all radars are radiating.

Screenshot 2024-08-18 133457.jpg (1.15 MiB) Viewed 567 times

And sorry about the scenario request. Missed it inside the pic frame.

[thewood1]

btw, had to rebuild it. Forgot that 1328.17/18 can't support db 507.

I lest it run for 30 minutes game time.

Just to confirm, I ran it in 1328.18. Same result.

[foxid259]

btw, had to rebuild it. Forgot that 1328.17/18 can't support db 507.

I lest it run for 30 minutes game time.

Just to confirm, I ran it in 1328.18. Same result.

I can't tell you exactly from which version of the game this error with the RVR operation started, I didn't do such research because there were no archives with different versions of the game before.
Since the beta version is now out, I noticed this bug and reported it immediately. Therefore, in my opinion, this is a bug in the game. If the developers intended it this way, then this is not a bug in the game.

[thewood1]

I've gone back to 1328.10 and it works exactly the same. How can you claim the devs didn't note that without knowing what version you were using?

I mean you came in hear like this is some serious issue with the game. Yet I have shown its been around well over a year. As far back as 1328.10. On top of that, its probably more realistic.

[thewood1]

This is from the 1158.XX era over four years ago. A similar complaint that was explained. So you would have to go back over fours years ago at least. And probably longer than CMO was even out. Back into the CMNAO days.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... R#p4891637

edit...

Found this comment from one of the devs about RWR and radar detections.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... d#p3735475

This in 2015. That means the OP is going all the way back to early days of CMNAO.

[foxid259]

I've gone back to 1328.10 and it works exactly the same. How can you claim the devs didn't note that without knowing what version you were using?

I mean you came in hear like this is some serious issue with the game. Yet I have shown its been around well over a year. As far back as 1328.10. On top of that, its probably more realistic.

I can say yes, I am writing to tech support with a game bug I noticed now that the game is in beta, which is for people to report bugs.
If this is how the developers intended RVR to work, they won't respond to my message.
With all due respect to YOU, I don't know if you are from the dev team or the admin group or just a gamer. But, if you think that the way it is is more realistic, agree that I can think differently and think that this is a bug of the game, considering when it appeared. In this case, it turns into a dispute about who is more suitable.

[thewood1]

My point is you are reporting a bug with no proof as to how it should work. I've shown its pretty much worked that way since the beginning. I am hoping not to waste the dev's time on something that has been explained to you multiple times. Now its been shown as not only an accurate approach to RWR operation, but how its pretty much been since the game was launched.

If you really want to report a bug thats based only on how the game used work, you at least can guess at what version you saw that happen. I would think its the least you can do.

In the end, I hope the dev ignore this thread.

[Nikel]

The problem seems related with obeying EMCOM, that inactivate some of the radars.

If you activate the inactive radars, all will be detected. However the inactive are not the RWR. No idea if this is WAD or not.

v17 with the rebuild posted by thewood1.

S.png (20.78 KiB) Viewed 505 times

R.png (43.77 KiB) Viewed 506 times

[thewood1]

Its not about the aircraft radar. Its about aircraft RWR detecting ground radars.

[thewood1]

Just to show the difference between RWR and ECM/ELINT capabilites. I put a Growler in and all radars were detected.

Screenshot 2024-08-18 161439.jpg (555.39 KiB) Viewed 490 times