Antwerp is NORTH from Brussels

[Etienne DAVOUT]

Sorry for the bad written English.

BIG MISTAKE!!!!

I saw a few screenshots of the game and when I looked at Belgium I couldn't believe my eyes.
You, gentlemen have placed Antwerp West from Brussels, at the open sea!! In reality however, Antwerp lies NORTH from Brussels and is situated inland on the Schelde River. The fact THAT it was an INLAND port made it so important for Napoleon.

Where you placed Antwerp is the real location of Ostend.

I think geography is not your strongest point?

Greetings from Belgium.

[Le Tondu]

Good eye Etienne DAVOUT. IMO, this deserves an official response.

[Capitaine]

Remember that this project is THE port of EiA to the PC. The original map (I just checked) is exactly the same as that screenshot.

Unless you want Matrix to redo the map differently, then what they have is correct per the game.

[Le Tondu]

Originally posted by Capitaine
..........then what they have is correct per the game.

It shouldn't matter how the original game was. If it is wrong, then it is wrong. Are you advocating that Matrix perpetuate the mistake?

[Supervisor]

Originally posted by Le Tondu
It shouldn't matter how the original game was. If it is wrong, then it is wrong. Are you advocating that Matrix perpetuate the mistake?

Certainly, if it is vital to maintain EiA feel and play. If it is not, then change it.

I do not want to pay for an adaptation of EiA by a couple of programmers who have never really even played the game.

[Pippin]

Perhaps then, we will have an option for both.

[Hoche]

First it must be noted that the map is not a mecator projection of Europe. The map is acurate and ADG used a different type of projection to inculde the parts of Europe, Asia and North Africa they wanted to include.

The lines of longitude are not alwys prefectly perpendicular with the top and bottom of the map. The only place where it is on the western side of the map. As the map extends to the east the lines of longitude begin to lean to the left. You will notice that Astrakhan is much further south of Moscow on a mecator projection of Russia than is on the EiA map. Part the confusion of Antwerp and Brussels may be due to this.

Also, one must remember that what is important is that the city is in the particular area. Where exactly it is in the area is of little importantance. If you look at the original map Brussles was drawn further north in its area than it is to fit the name of the minor country Flanders.

This thread is mucha do about nothing.

[Hoche]

People must remember that game maps have to have a symbolic nature. No game board is perfectly acurate. The creators of the game wanted to include Antwerp as a different city from Brussels but only wanted one city per area. So they moved Brussels to the west and made it a symbol for general port capcity along the Belgium coast.

Also, if they placed belgium inland how would ships move in and out? The Schelde River is not repersented on the map. There are no rules to allow for ships to move across land. The creators of the game made a comprmise between accuracy and playabliity. Matrix should stick to the original game.

[Le Tondu]

Since we all have our opinions....

I want to give great credit where credit is due ---to the creators of EiA. Our hobby owes them a LOT. Thanks guys.

One thing that I believe we don't owe them is to perpetuate their mistakes. I am for improving the game and NOT keeping it the same.

We talk here about how this or that issue was accurate Napoleonically speaking -sometimes with heightened feelings. Give the Brits all bluecoats and folks (rightfully so) would have a knipshfit. "Accuracy" is the banner that they would fly and fight for.

It really should be the same with the map. Accurately placing the cities on the map will have NO effect on playability as Hoche shows for us when he says:
-------------------------------
"Also, one must remember that what is important is that the city is in the particular area. Where exactly it is in the area is of little importantance."
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Why not include the Schelde River on an accurate map? There's no reason not to. The cities do not have to be so graphicly HUGE either, so Antwerp and Brussels CAN be used.

An accurate map can be used. Is tradition the only reason not to? No other real reason has been offered so far.

A great opportunity exists to really shine. Unfortunately, I'm not so sure that maintaining the status quo is it.

[Capitaine]

Tondu, in general, I agree with your approach and premise. However, given that it has been pointed out that (a) the cities are not necessarily positioned exactly w/in the area they are located at the place they would be geographically (although probably they ARE within that area); and (b) the angle of the map and omission of certain terrain features (like some rivers) make a purely visual conclusion less than certain, I think we can cut some slack on slight latitudes in city positioning w/in areas as long as the city in question should be within its area and its functionality corresponds to its historical/geographic counterpart.

Using that rubric, I'm not certain that saying Antwerp should be "north" (on the map) of Brussels means that it really isn't effectively where it should be...

Also, as much as this game is played, wouldn't some boardgame players have commented on this previously if a city were misplaced?

For the record, I am 110% in favor of accurate maps in ANY historical map wargame.

[U2]

Hoche and Capitaine is correct. Why? This is not a WW2 battle or a Waterloo game where one has a VERY detailed map of small towns, rivers, hills etc etc. This is a very large map much like maps used in Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis and so on where details such as the correct city location within an area is not accurate nor can it be. I don't get that people dont understand that......
Anyone that has played a grand strategy game knows what I am talking about. I could not care less about this....

[Le Tondu]

Yes, yes indeed. (I'll quiet down.)

The whole issue appears to be moot as it was stated in the past that modding will be allowed for the map and units. What you see on your screen doesn't necessarily have to be what your opponents see on theirs.

That still is correct, isn't it?

[Capitaine]

Isn't Antwerp slightly NNW of Brussels anyway? It is to the west a little I believe. But actually, looking at the EiA boardgame map again, it seems to me that the problem is that Brussels is too far north and east in its area due to printing issues. Dunno if it matters, but if Brussels could be moved further SW, and Antwerp slightly E, both within the same areas they're in now, wouldn't that be satisfactory?

(IOW, if you keep the cities in the same areas, it'll have no effect on gameplay anyway and, if the new computer version artwork can accommodate positions a little closer to actual locations by small adjustments of both, then everyone would be happy, right?)