City Fort Stacking Limit?

[HansBolter]

Do City Forts have a stacking limit?
Manual only states that multiple units and Hqs can be stacked in them, but does not state what the limit is?
Can the entire Soviet Army really be stacked in one hex?

Next Question:

How do I conquer City Fort hexes with Defensive Combat Values anywhere from 250 to 800+?
I've attacked the 250 DV Odessa fort 5 times, reducing to under 100 DV each time, only to have the DV jump back over 200 by the next turn.

I have Leningrad isolated, but it has a DV of over 750. I'm close to surrounding Moscow, but all three of its hexes have a DV of over 800.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Do City Forts have a stacking limit?
Manual only states that multiple units and Hqs can be stacked in them, but does not state what the limit is?
Can the entire Soviet Army really be stacked in one hex?

Next Question:

How do I conquer City Fort hexes with Defensive Combat Values anywhere from 250 to 800+?
I've attacked the 250 DV Odessa fort 5 times, reducing to under 100 DV each time, only to have the DV jump back over 200 by the next turn.

I have Leningrad isolated, but it has a DV of over 750. I'm close to surrounding Moscow, but all three of its hexes have a DV of over 800.

City fort stacking is way too high at 10. At best, in my opinion, 6 would be a much better game playable limit. But 10? Way too high.

[HansBolter]

So the limit is 10?
I couldn't find that stated in the manual.

For some of the hexes to have defensive values of 750+ would mean that each combat unit has a value over 75.
While, at times, some of the German divisions have had values in the high 40s I have yet to see a single German division with a value of 75.

How are the Soviets achieving this?

[tyronec]

Next Question:

How do I conquer City Fort hexes with Defensive Combat Values anywhere from 250 to 800+?
I've attacked the 250 DV Odessa fort 5 times, reducing to under 100 DV each time, only to have the DV jump back over 200 by the next turn.

I have Leningrad isolated, but it has a DV of over 750. I'm close to surrounding Moscow, but all three of its hexes have a DV of over 800.

If they have high values then you have to Isolate them, Odessa using naval Patrol.
You don't want to be making multiple losing attacks, the Isolation reduces the morale of the defending units and they will get weaker, however attacking them and losing pushes it up again.
You need to judge when they are weak enough to attack, which is not always obvious. Good engineers and arty will help push down the fort value.

[tyronec]

Next Question:

How do I conquer City Fort hexes with Defensive Combat Values anywhere from 250 to 800+?
I've attacked the 250 DV Odessa fort 5 times, reducing to under 100 DV each time, only to have the DV jump back over 200 by the next turn.

I have Leningrad isolated, but it has a DV of over 750. I'm close to surrounding Moscow, but all three of its hexes have a DV of over 800.

If they have high values then you have to Isolate them, Odessa using naval Patrol.
You don't want to be making multiple losing attacks, the Isolation reduces the morale of the defending units and they will get weaker, however attacking them and losing pushes it up again.
You need to judge when they are weak enough to attack, which is not always obvious. Good engineers and arty will help push down the fort value.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Isolation should "not" be the option to take a city fort stacked with 10 units + 2 on outside. Early game not that bad but by end of 42 it is beyond silly.

[M60A3TTS]

10 Soviet divisions of 12,000 men each (the latter being very rare) = 120,000 compared to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... y_capacity

I don't really see an issue in that context.

The issue I do have in the case of an isolated Leningrad is that in a city of tens or hundreds of thousands, nobody has the means to repair a Mozin-Nagant bolt action rifle, or a Tokarev 9mm pistol, fabricate a replacement tube for an 82mm mortar or the stock for a PPSh submachine gun? So none of these ground elements can be repaired and these divisions become weaker and weaker until they just collapse. To me that's really irksome, but that is the game.

[garga3]

I also agree that the limit actually is close to very good good for historical Leningrad and Sevastopol. Moscow never happened, Odessa is not really an issue(and still is close to historical). Smolensk and Talin are also not a real issue (Smolensk fortess is a bit ahistoricall and a might be a logistical problem but the price in blood will be huge if fully stacked).

To answer the op: The high dv comes from terain and forts. Odesa is a city, Leningrad,Moscow,Smolensk - urban(even more defense, refer to the manual, city is x3 urban x4). This is why you observe higher dv at Leningrad then Odesa. You cant destroy the terrain, but to counter citys and urban flamers(even tanks) and smgs are the best (or other weapons that perform well at close range as most combat there happens at close range). Also mortars. The forts are best countered by pioneers and siege artillery and if you stack enough you can take Odessa without risk, Urban forts will probably be a problem if not isolated(possible but too risky).

If enemy is already too entrenched, make sure all your stormtroopers are at 100preparation, 0 Fatigue, 100% ammo and supplies(so rest them out of enemy sight and try to get as close to these values as possible) and led by your star infantry officer(s), supported by the proper support units as suggested above(and also attach pioneers and flame tanks etc directly to the units so you can bring even more firepower, have 6+ artillery attached to the hq, the more and bigger guns the more greeting you can send to the soviets before the assault). You can take Odessa non isolated (but its better for you to isolate it to capture and sent all soviets to Aushvits or another hot and charming place).

Edit:
@HLYA - Actually it would be better if you share your knowledge with the owner of the post, since i dont even play the germans in wite2 and dont really know what is optimal, while you do. Yes forts are annoying and new players have problems with them. So what, remove them, make them hold only 50 points so they can hold only 3 corps?(which can be stacked anyways, actually i really dont know as i never could play a corps, all my german opponents surrender before the winter ... so that makes me also unskilled low-educated soviet player but thats life, the game is still good for me). You can always ask politely your oponent for a house rule about them forts and test what you think is better and then propose a change, critisim is useless.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Stack inf corps in the city fort then come talk to me. Until then 10 is too many.

I 100% know how to attack a city fort and some of common edicate may not apply how to take-p

[M60A3TTS]

From the manual, 20.6.2

Each city fort can attach up to 10 on map ground units (combat and/or HQ) of up to 100 stacking point limit (where
corps=15, division =9, brigade=5, regiment=3, HQ and support units=0).

[DeletedUser1769703214]

From the manual, 20.6.2

Each city fort can attach up to 10 on map ground units (combat and/or HQ) of up to 100 stacking point limit (where
corps=15, division =9, brigade=5, regiment=3, HQ and support units=0).

Yup

[DeletedUser1769703214]

A corps is equivalent to roughly 2.5+ divisions, more later in the war. So stack a corps you get better bang for your buck than stacking two division equivalencies.

Again the 10 with infantry div is too much in my opinion and also 6 corps + a division is beyond retarded in my opinion to break this down in layman terms.

[HansBolter]

Thank you for the manual reference.
Can't imagine why I expected to find the answer in the Stacking Limits section.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

10 Soviet divisions of 12,000 men each (the latter being very rare) = 120,000 compared to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... y_capacity

I don't really see an issue in that context.

The issue I do have in the case of an isolated Leningrad is that in a city of tens or hundreds of thousands, nobody has the means to repair a Mozin-Nagant bolt action rifle, or a Tokarev 9mm pistol, fabricate a replacement tube for an 82mm mortar or the stock for a PPSh submachine gun? So none of these ground elements can be repaired and these divisions become weaker and weaker until they just collapse. To me that's really irksome, but that is the game.

I'd always seen damaged elements (with the exception of some of the heavier/more niche weapons and the AFV elements) as representing the personnel being 'damaged' rather than the equipment.

My understanding of how the system works is that damaged elements are rarely (if ever?) repaired 'in the field' but instead in normal circumstances are returned to the transit pool and (if possible) replaced by elements from the active pool. If the unit is isolated it can't send the damaged elements back and it can't receive new elements to replace them.

I guess that mechanic is representing more heavily wounded soldiers who need more specialist treatment than they can receive on the front line who in an isolation situation cannot be evacuated. There are some pretty grim accounts of the conditions in the field hospitals in the Stalingrad pocket for example.

[Wiedrock]

My understanding of how the system works is that damaged elements are rarely (if ever?) repaired 'in the field'

Yes, there is "in unit repair" not requiring any ressources.
In case of an encircled city you can also observe this BUT the "frontline attrition" is outpacing the repairs OR blocking the internal repairs completely (not sure), so you will not be able to see if something has been repaired, you can only observe it when the encircled unit is no longer directly in contact to an enemy unit.