Panzergrenadier Division TOEs (Type 2)

[Wiedrock]

This Thread (for now) is about the two "Type 2"TOEs [OB:263, OB:264], which are the most of the "normal" Panzergrenadiers (without special names/SS/STalingrad Divisions).


STILL WIP

43+44:
Open/WIP/ToDo:
Panzerschreck (see BArch RH 10/348 - conversation about Panzerschreck inside PzG and PzD)
Engineer Batallion:
The usual issue with the game missing the normal Mot. Pioneers with 12Men with 2LMGs per Squad.

TOE43:
Open/WIP/ToDo:
Panzerschreck (see BArch RH 10/348 - conversation about Panzerschreck inside PzG and PzD)
SP Flak/Flak
Panzergrenadier Regiments:
The confusing part here may only be the Pioneer Company. But their setup quickly seem to have been established and implemented when KSTNs were finally written in 11/1943.
So this I marked as it should be in the Pic, 12Squads (10Men) with additional 2x8cm Mortars and 2xHMG.
The Stug Batallion:

• The Stug Batallion always seems to have had 3 Command Tanks (mostly PzIII with 5cm "long").
• The Stug Batallion has 3 Squads of Mech Pioneers (9Men) and further 3 Squads of Mot.Recons (5Men). This is missing, similar to the issue I pointed out here for the Heavy Tank Batallions.
• The Stug Batallion has according to KSTNs always had 3x2cm Quad SP Flak Sd.Kfz.7/1. This is similar to the missing Flak as I pointed out here for the Heavy Tank Batallions.

The Panzerjäger Batallion:
Here are 3 Command SPGs missing.
The KSTN also contains 3xFlak 7/1 Quad, but in this case I found a nore that this one is not presend when inside a Panzergrenadier Division.
Recon Battalion:
Some had 2xleIG18, some not, some had the 6x8cm Mortar, some not...
Engineer Batallion:
Missing the 2xHMG per Company.

PzG43_best.png (4.91 MiB) Viewed 776 times

TOE44:
Open/WIP/ToDo:
Panzerschreck (see BArch RH 10/348 - conversation about Panzerschreck inside PzG and PzD)
Mot Recons (weird Squad sizes (LMGs))
Flak Batallion:
+3 7/1 SP Quad Flak
+9 37mm Flak
The Stug Batallion:
see TOE43
Artillery Battalion:
more Artillery

PzG44_best.png (6.29 MiB) Viewed 776 times

[Wiedrock]

10/1943

This is the order from 24.09.1943 to convert all Panzergrenadier (and Panzer Divisions) Divisions to the new 1943 TOEs. Panzergrenadier exceptions (named in this order) is Großdeutschland. I am not sure about the special equipmetn some Panzergrenadier Divisions got ("Stalingrad Divisions"), like being equipped with 3x6 SP Artillery or having a armored Recon Battalion. They are represented by the "Type 1" TOEs which will be part of another Thread if I fine sufficient materials about them. With this order a Gliederung appeared, which has some issues to it (read on) and was more or less improvised since many KSTNs were only written/re-written/published one month later.

PzG43 Reorganization-RH_2_1108.png (4.24 MiB) Viewed 778 times

PzG43 Gliederung_initial_RH_2_1108_0164.png (2.51 MiB) Viewed 778 times

The Following Gliederung is from summer 1944, it mostly differentiates from the earlier September 1943 version in the 2x leIG18 or 6x8cm Mortar of the Recon battalion. The 1943 Gliederung was printed before some of the KSTNs were written, so only from 1.Nov.1943 things were more clear. Additionally all/most of the 1943 visuals are having the same issues, like:
Here you can see the Pioneer Battalion setup, seeign the ~12Men Squads and the HMGs, I have no idea how they managed to forget about the HMGs for a whole year, I couldn't find any note on those being not applied to the TOE. Some schemes therefore have handwritten corrections or questionmarks.
Similar issue with the whole Staff Company of the SuG Battalion. For the Panzerjäger Battalion there is a note that it's not having Flak when inside a Panzergrenadier Division. So some weird mistakes going on which were carried on until replacement of the TOE in 1944 eventually.

PzG43_Gliederung_RH_10_102_0047.png (2.7 MiB) Viewed 778 times

[Wiedrock]

08/1944

Following is the order from 20.08.1944 to convert all PzG Divisions to the new TOE. The only exceptiosn (mentioned in this order) are Feldherrnhalle and Großdeutschland. More on this can be found in BArch RH 2/1108.

PzG44 Reorganization 1944-RH_2_1108_0178.png (3 MiB) Viewed 783 times

The Gliederungs chart followed with calculations on 5.9.1944. More can be found in BArch 2/1371, the calculations are separate (since huge sheets/images with much larger pixel numbers) and can be found in BArch 10/101K.

PzG44_Gliederung_Calculations.png (4.69 MiB) Viewed 783 times

Following the Gliederung, this will be used as a comparison visualization to the current TOE.

PzG44_Gliederung.png (2.05 MiB) Viewed 783 times

Note: There are many of these Charts (especially for the PzG43 TOE) floating around which miss several things, e.g. the HMG of the Pioneer Battalion, the whole StuG Batallion's Staff Company (Lead Tanks, Flak, MGs [recons/engineers]), also there are plans which give different numbers for MGs (Recons) of the Regimental Recons.

[Wiedrock]

-

[Denniss]

in the PzG 44 graph I see 58x 81mm mortars, not the reduction to 52 you suggested.
Command stugs were fully armed so no reduction there.
my plans for 44 T2 OB so far:
0264 44 T2 PzG Div 8x 10/5 SP Flak -> 6x 7/1, 2x leIG -> 9x 37mm Flak, 8x->12x 88mm Flak, 54x->51x 20mm Flak, 21x->18x 75mm Pak, change armored cars to 13x 2cm and 3x 7.5cm, 8x->12x sFH

[Wiedrock]

in the PzG 44 graph I see 58x 81mm mortars, not the reduction to 52 you suggested.

Yes, that's why it's WIP, it's related to the 2xleIG18 of the Recon Battalion vs the 6xMortar.

[Denniss]

for 43b the Flak Abteilung should be removed as this was at best a mid 44 add-on so they should have the 12x 10/5 in the PzJ Abteilung and 24x towed 20mm in the Inf rgts

[MechFO]

for 43b the Flak Abteilung should be removed as this was at best a mid 44 add-on so they should have the 12x 10/5 in the PzJ Abteilung and 24x towed 20mm in the Inf rgts

As of 12. Mai and 18. Juli 1943 of the 26 Heeres Flak Abt integrated into Divisions,

4 in Inf Mot Div (60/FHH, 16, 3, 29)
Sturm Div
GD
20 in Panzer Div

by 13.12.1943 6 Pz Gren Div had a Heeres Flak Abt. As of 13.12.1943 2 additional Heeres Flak Abt were supposed to be attached to Divisions but unclear if Pz or Pz Gren.



As of 22. Mai 1943 Zusammenstellung der Fla Kpn in Panzer und Panzer Gren Div

1) Fla Kpn in Panzer Div = 52 - 2cm u. 36 8.8 cm

2) Fla Kpn in Panzer Gren Div = 13 2cm u. 11 8.8 cm und 2 3.7cm

of which

Panzer Div

2 cm Kpn - 8.8 cm Kpn

1 - 2 ---- Panzer Div 8, 19, 21 ---- Pz Gren 3, 29, 60
2 - 2 ---- Panzer Div 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 17
3 - 2 ----- Panzer Div 1, 12, 14, 16, 24 ----- Pz Gren 16
4 - 2 ---- Panzer Div 3, 9, 11, 13, 23
2 - 0 ---- Panzer Div 18
1 - 0 ---- Panzer Div 20, 90 le, 164 le ----- Pz Gren 10, 20, 25, Schn Div West

3 - 3 +2 3.7cm ----- GD

In the above list,
those with 4 - 2cm Kp had 2 in the Pz Gren Reg and 2 in the Heeres Flak Abt
Some of those with 3 - 2cm Kp had either 2 in in the Pz Gren Reg and 1 in the Heeres Flak Abt (Pz 1, 14,16, 21,Pz Gren 16)
The others with 3 - 2cm Kp or 2 - 2cm Kp had 1 in the Pz Jg Abt and the others in the Heeres Flak Abt.

On 4. Juni 1943

various Flak Kpn of the of the Pz Jg Abt were taken out and attached to the Heeres Flak Abt. (Pz Div 5, 7, 8, 12, 17, 10), other Divisions listed without attached Flak Abt (Panzer Div 18, 20, Pz Gren Div 10, 20, 25) but not sure how to interprete this.

[MechFO]

In June 1942 the Org Abt determined that as of then all Heeresgruppe Süd Schnelle Verbände had a Heeres Flak Abt (with 9 Abt left over).

- from Autumn 1942 onward all Schnelle Verbände should be equipped with a Heeres Flak Abt
- new Abt should be formed
- existing 2 - 8.8. cm Bttr Abt expanded to 3 Bttr

due to beginning of 3.7 cm production:

- reequip Fla Btl to mixed 3.7 cm - 2 cm
- Pz Jg of first Schnelle Verbände, later Inf Div with 1 Kp 3.7cm

Integrate the 2cm Flak Kpn into Inf and Pz Gren Reg and Pz Jg Abt. Existing 2cm Fla Kpn in schnelle Verbände to be renamed and integrated into the Pz Jg Abt.

In October 1942 Org Abt asked for 18 new Heeres Flak Abt and 40 2cm Flak Kp, by December 1942 this had changed to 10 Abt and 66 Kp, however due to having to Hitler ordering the supply of Italy with large numbers of Flak Guns, this did not take place as planned.

In November 1943 the Org Abt asks for 12 Heeres Flak Abt, 12 Heeres Flak Abt (bod.) and 23 Heeres Flak Abt.

In December 1944 Führerbefehl for 10 new leichte Heeres Flak Brigaden (t.bew.mot.).


As of 8 Mai 1943 following ID had a 2cm Fla Kp as 3rd Kp of the Pz Jg Abt.

15, 17, 23, 44, 71, 76, 79, 94, 106, 111, 113, 167, 257, 297, 305, 327, 332, 333, 335, 371, 376, 384, 389

[MechFO]

for 43b the Flak Abteilung should be removed as this was at best a mid 44 add-on so they should have the 12x 10/5 in the PzJ Abteilung and 24x towed 20mm in the Inf rgts

As of 12. Mai and 18. Juli 1943 of the 26 Heeres Flak Abt integrated into Divisions,

4 in Inf Mot Div (60/FHH, 16, 3, 29)
Sturm Div
GD
20 in Panzer Div

by 13.12.1943 6 Pz Gren Div had a Heeres Flak Abt. As of 13.12.1943 2 additional Heeres Flak Abt were supposed to be attached to Divisions but unclear if Pz or Pz Gren.

The bolded bit is from a scan but I can't figure out which Pz Gren Div was the 6th. The 5th will have been the 15. Pz Gren with Heeres Flak Abt 315.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2#p5042202

[Denniss]

Regarding Panzerschreck equipment please have a look at BArch RH 10/348 https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio ... f829d00ba/
per order of 9 July 1944 both PD and PzG Div had to have 80 Panzerschreck (no detail about active/reserve), in a march 44 order Inf/Jäger/mountain divs were supposed to have 130 Panzerschreck of which 22 were reserve. By then Pz/PzG were not supposed to get Panzerschreck whch sparked complaints from affected units. There's also an interesting 21 June 44 order detailing other unit type's equipment with Panzerschreck

[Denniss]

OB charts for most of the Heer PzG Divs at BArch: https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio ... 464f212b1/

EDIT: Latewar Kriegsgliederung for many mech or special SS divs (without Grenadier divs it seems): https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio ... 8dbdf3030/