Things to assist the newbie

Adam Parker · Post by **Adam Parker** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:39 am

Without doubt the experience level of gamers playing KP will vary and going by posts here it looks like the game will be "the" introduction to war gaming for a great many. Welcome to the hobby!

Whilst gameplay imo as I've noted in another thread, is a mixture of both simplicity and complexity depending on how deep gamers wish to delve into the nuances of the engine, there are a couple of things new war gamers may benefit from exploring when taking on the role of either the Soviet "Stavka" or German High Command (this particularly in light of a review comparing the game to an RTS!)

Here's what I recommend:

1. Try to find a source explaining the hierachy and make-up of a military force. KP is basically a regimental approach to fighting war. Some concept of how armies are comprised of corps, divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions etc., therefore, will help you grasp the types of units you control and how they relate to one another; why Divisional Integrity exists etc.; why some units are viewed as divisional assets and not core parts of divisions; the difference in combat efficiency between regiments and battalions; why 3-4 units usually depict a regiment and not 2 or 5....

2. Try to find a source explaining Nato symbology used (to this day) in illustrating what a particular military unit represents. Eg: that a cross represents an infantry unit, that a cross with an oval represents a mechanised nfantry unit. In time these things will become second nature to you but going into the game with this understanding will make throwing yourself into the action a much deeper and rewarding first experience. Also look for a chart explaining the symbology used in illustrating the military hierachy as for point 1.

With these things you will be armed with the same knowledge that even the most experienced war gamers hold - and dare I say, with the idiosynchracies of this game system you may prove yourself as adept as an upstart Alexander or Napoleon and beat the pants off them

Happy gaming,
Adam.

bagpuss · Post by **bagpuss** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:44 pm

Adam Parker
thanks ........
btw is there no descriptions of the game icons in the manual ?.......lol .....I hope so .........is there any sites anyone can recommend about info on wargames ,icons ,strategies etc (I got the one for Wacht am Rhein,excellent place .....)

cheers
bagpuss

Adam Parker · Post by **Adam Parker** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:56 am

I actually had you in mind when I wrote that! The rulebook gives some idea with a discussion of the generic roles of armor vs infantry etc., as they relate to the game.

It may help you and others new to the hobby though, to know a little more - eg basics: how many troops typically comprise a division vs a battalion, what's the difference between "XX" and "II" on a military symbol? More advanced: Is there a difference between armored cav and mech infantry? What's a Kampfgruppe? What are Russian Guards? Things like this, not at all necessary to play KP but which will fill out your role as General imo.

The thing about war gaming is that the hobby usually leads a person to reading and research. So these things if unknown will certainly be picked up in time and most war games will provide gamers with this core information as their collection grows.

The Korusn campaign history provided with the game is a fine jumping off point which should raise many questions for further investigation in the minds of the curious too

Adam.

Jeff Lackey · Post by **Jeff Lackey** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:52 am

Here's a start if you want a great reference on NATO symbols:

http://www.battlefront.com/resources/ta ... /app-6.zip

BrubakerII · Post by **BrubakerII** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:07 pm

These are fair comments made about the manual I think - it does tend to assume people playing the game have a grounding in wargaming. The tutorials also are very good but explain how to play the game, and not necessarily understand why x units are there or why they are attacking at location y.

I think the historical section at the end of the manual is excellent in describing the complexities of the battle itself, and pretty much explain all one needs to know about the battle unless they are a real grognard.

Which leads me to an interesting question: what exactly draws a newcomer to the genre and in particular this game? Is it attraction to other games by Matrix and hence cross pollination on the forums? Is it recommendation by someone?

Welcome aboard to all those new to this 'sport' and congrats to Adam for recognising a 'hole' in the information spectrum.

Perhaps we need to start a 'basics' type thread to explain some of the nitty gritty?

Brubaker

PS: Please no one feel so 'green' so as not to ask a question. I have a little knowledge and am always delighted to learn what I do not know. Ask away. The only dumb question is the one not asked...

Sonny · Post by **Sonny** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:42 pm

Those symbols indicating type of troop and size of unit are a great help in most wargames. However, on the KP screen they are too small because the counters are too small and they have the unit insignia on them. Great idea - just too small.

IJN_Shinano · Post by **IJN_Shinano** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:38 pm

Originally posted by Sonny
Those symbols indicating type of troop and size of unit are a great help in most wargames. However, on the KP screen they are too small because the counters are too small and they have the unit insignia on them. Great idea - just too small.

They might be small, but they do the job quite well in my opinion. At a glance, I can spot elements of a division without having to click on each and every unit in a given area.

One thing I would like to see is a few more varied symbols for the USSR. The German side has quite a few unique divisional insignia.

Capitaine · Post by **Capitaine** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:39 pm

Yeah, Sonny, I'm holding out hope that there will be a zoom feature for map and units (i.e., "battlefield view") forthcoming. The map and units are so nicely done, it's ashame to hide them under that small screen size w/o allowing for a larger view of the counter and terrain details.

Jeff Lackey · Post by **Jeff Lackey** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:42 pm

Originally posted by Sonny
Those symbols indicating type of troop and size of unit are a great help in most wargames. However, on the KP screen they are too small because the counters are too small and they have the unit insignia on them. Great idea - just too small.

I do agree that a zoom function would be a great help - I suspect that a lot of people will play this game on laptops, as it lends itself so well to notebook gaming (and I suspect many grognards are older and have notebooks.) For my review, I ran it on my Viewsonic 19" monitor and on my Dell notebook's large LCD - it was pretty good on the Viewsonic (I'm a digital photographer and keep my monitor pretty well calibrated) and it was sharp, but small enough to be a challenge on the Dell.

Also - I think it would be a GREAT idea to have a thread devoted exclusively to links for newbies to the genre. We need to get more people into the wargaming hobby, and a resources link would be great. I did a quick search in Google and had a hard time coming up with a simple online reference to standard WWII organizational charts (i.e., Army, Corps, Divisions, etc. and the app. size of each for each country, etc.)

bagpuss · Post by **bagpuss** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:30 pm

what is a "grognard" ?

I read a good review of KP,an I fancy a change from the usual boring rts or fps,thats what attracted me to the game

thanks for the info zip ,
cheers
bagpuss

elmo3 · Post by **elmo3** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:55 pm

Originally posted by bagpuss
what is a "grognard" ?....

Originally a grognard was a soldier of Napoleon's Old Guard; also a veteran soldier; and/or a grumbler.

It is now often used as slang for a wargamer and also for a wargamer who really insists on historical accuracy and grumbles vociferously if he doesn't find it in a wargame.

Bushbee · Post by **Bushbee** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:39 am

I desperately want to get into the "hardcore" wargames. Medieval: TW is about the extent of my wargaming abilities. I love micromanagement to death and am an avid chess player. However, my financial hobby abilities have always been thin, and the near future doesn't look much better. This sounds like "the" wargame to open the door for me, but I have to have as much moddability and replayability as possible. So, I need honest advice. Should KP be my start or will I get more from, say, The Operational Art of War. I downloaded the TOAW demo but was lost without good instruction and some type of tutorial. I did play some but it all still felt half hearted, making the experience mediocre at best. All advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:39 am

Bushbee,

Look into the TOAW folder on your hard drive. You'll find the manual there along with instructions for the tutorials. (IIRC)

Nice to hear you want to indulge yourself in our favorite pasttime.

Personally, I found Korsun Pocket much more manageable than TOAW, but your mileage may vary. Korsun Pocket is definetely a good stepping stone into "hardcore" wargames.

Adam Parker · Post by **Adam Parker** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:47 am

Bushbee considering that KP contains both campaigns for Korsun and the Battle of the Bulge, I think you'll find this title the most absorbant and absorbing of the choices you've come up with. It provides sufficient elements with which to focus, from a micro sense if you wish to delve deeply enough into the forces you're managing - and I'm geting a hunch that to win, some consideration given to these nuances is pretty much imperative!

The game is also chewable enough to set a firm base upon which you can continue to explore the hobby. And let me tell you, as the Russians KP is no walk over.

Talkling of which, you're very lucky in a way. It used to be unheard of to find a game that would cover the East Front in all its glory and allow for some thinking play as the Russians. Here, in its five scenarios plus that for the Ardennes you've got the pleasing choice of jumping into either Front - West or East and play as either belligerent with some challenging generalship before you.

Whilst TOAW does fill the needs of many, I prefer to invest in title such as KP or those of HPS's Panzer Campaigns which guarantee a focus on one campaign per title with research and rules to match that campaign's circumstances. TOAW lost me as soon as it began embellishing and re-writing its supply engine and airpower just didn't feel right.

As a newbie to wargaming, you'll find KP easy to grasp but difficult to master. Sounds cliche I know but this title is extremely unforgiving even when you "think" you know where you're going with your armies. I'm 50-50 right now as to whether this is a virtue or a frustration!

Adam.

Bushbee · Post by **Bushbee** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 2:49 pm

I really appreciate the quick reply guys! I don't mean to be petty, but I can afford only a few games a year, and I want my "foot in the door" to be pleasant. I might wait a little and see if any mods show for KP. That's the one thing that TOAW has going for it is unlimited theatres and replayability. Again, thanks for the great responses!