Beach Invasion / Defense issue

[stjeand]

My extremely smart opponent found a little bug improving on a strange defense I tried that could become a major issue if exploited.

The Allies were desperate...and the UK was ripe for invasion.
As a unique defense I landed 2 small corps on the beaches just south of Plymouth. That actually made Plymouth unattackable by invasion. The issue I had was those units had not supply so began to degrade. Yes I could supply by air or sea but the Luftwaffe was far to strong to do this for long.

Little did I know there was an improvement to this.

The unit can swap positions with a unit that is in supply next to it. So you can just keep swapping units and make it so that your opponent can't land on that hex and you are always in supply.

With this exploit you could make multiple locations uninvadable, Gibraltar, Scapa Flow, Sicily...

Not sure how to work around this in the code...

[AlvaroSousa]

Yes this was an issue. The solution was that air can literally blow up the unit.

Unit's on beach hexes are HIGHLY vulnerable to air attacks. Instead of little damage they take FULL damage from air attacks. That was the trade.

If you can do this on all your beaches and have a massive air superiority then you should be able to stunt an invasion. But if the invader has the air superiority he can wipe the units off the map with air strikes.

At the very least the damaged cased to the units will be massive that production can't keep up

[stjeand]

I will have to test attacking with air.

Sadly places like Scapa Flow and Gibraltar can't be attacked by say Axis air...unless they own the UK or Africa.

I have been attacking those units with air and they appear to do little to nothing to them. I rarely do a single point of damage let alone "blow them up".

Unless I am missing something. I would be okay if air was causing constant damage but I keeping hitting a unit in France for 0 damage. I have attacked the unit with 3 full ground attack...and again it does nothing.

I just tested using the 1943 scenario...I land an Italian unit on a Sicily beach...I attack it more than 10 times from Allied air and do 0 damage over and over again.

I suspect it is no longer working, unless I don't understand it.

[stjeand]

So in another test I invaded Sicily with an Allied unit...and left it on the beach.
The very first attack did heavy damage, none after do any.

So landed with a full corps...first attack 9 damage...next 6 attacks 0.

Next turn first attack 4 damage...next 9 attacks 0.


Opposite that if you invade your own territory and your opponent attacks that unit on the beach...maybe 1 damage on the first attack but 0 for all subsequent.

[stjeand]

Alright so another update...

It appears you have to be able to "see", full recon, (see the unit stats), to do any damage.

Issue...that is not possible since you can't invade.


So invading Sicily as the Axis keeps the Allies from doing anything...unless the allies paradrop in they can't do any damage because none of the units are in full recon.

[Nirosi]

If I recall correctly, by design only the first air attack per turn on a unit can also remove strength points (kill steps). All others will only reduce efficiency/readiness.

[stjeand]

If I recall correctly, by design only the first air attack per turn on a unit can also remove strength points (kill steps). All others will only reduce efficiency/readiness.

Correct.
But this would still make beach units difficult to destroy...and 0 damage if they are not in full recon, you can see their stats.

So drop off divisions on all the Sicily beaches...the Allies do not have any full recon so no ability to invade.

[Nirosi]

Could it not be possible to forbid landing on an already owned (from previous turn) beach?

[stjeand]

Could it not be possible to forbid landing on an already owned (from previous turn) beach?

That is what we are using as a house rule...UNLESS you are invading to attack another invasion. Which honestly should be really rare.

[AlvaroSousa]

If you forbid landings on occupied beach then how do you reinforce an invasion?

This is a tough pickle.

How SC3 does it is that the units sit on the boats. But I don't like this method as they can just leave without consequences.
Granted it does take forever to move them away and the transports are vulnerable to air attack.

I can't make sweeping changed to WP1 invasion rules without a lot of work.

[Nirosi]

Can we not forbid it only if you already owned the beach last turns. So you could land multiple times the same turn (the invasion turn)?

Or maybe just forbid landing on a own beach if the connected full hex is also owned? This way one could still reinforce an invasion "stuck" for now but not its own beaches while waiting for an invasion?

[AlvaroSousa]

I found an easy solution.

Think of Battle off Samar.

What happens if the area of an invasion forced has an enemy fleet?

If commander Kurita stayed with the Yamato and that forced what would have happened to the invaders?
They would have died getting blasted by gunfire from all the ships there.

So this is the solution. Someone wants to stick units on a beach and get exploiting a technicality? Well if they don't have an enemy fleet to protect them they take severe damage just by the enemy fleet being there.

If also forces players to protect their invasion force with something. It will make invading England tougher.

[stjeand]

I found an easy solution.

Think of Battle off Samar.

What happens if the area of an invasion forced has an enemy fleet?

If commander Kurita stayed with the Yamato and that forced what would have happened to the invaders?
They would have died getting blasted by gunfire from all the ships there.

So this is the solution. Someone wants to stick units on a beach and get exploiting a technicality? Well if they don't have an enemy fleet to protect them they take severe damage just by the enemy fleet being there.

If also forces players to protect their invasion force with something. It will make invading England tougher.

That may work...so long as it is not a percentage...because if it is...units will last a long while still.

This will make invading the UK more difficult...well it should have been impossible.

[AlvaroSousa]

The thing is if someone decides to do this little trick despite the fleet the damage to units will be greater than strategic bombardment. They have to cover many beaches as well and the Allies have plenty of ships. So it fixes itself.

The Battle of Britain will be more interesting. Let them land or lose ships killing them on the beaches. It really forces the Axis to have air superiority.