Question about mech infantry

[kutaycosar]

I'm trying to understand how good the game system is before buying, my previous experience with the games in this genre teached me to do this I read somewhere in forum that mechanized infantry does not make sense in combat,them being slow in combat etc, not moving as fast as vehicles they using(should be not case before they deployed). does those issues adresssed with new updates? and what's apcs exact role in combat? can someone explain?

[Wiedrock]

Generally, the combat is done in phases which get reduced in range and each range new weapons start shooting (since each weapon has logically its minimum range).

The game uses an, I'd call it 2-layered system of CV and Combat.
- CV gives a general idea of the strength of a unit but not an exact one, like Artillery has basically no CV but performs pretty good in combat, so it is not a 1:1 "translation". Devs describe it as something like "boots on the ground".
- Combat is then being done and it affects final CV by damaging, destroying or disrupting enemy Ground Elements. There is more to the system but not of interest when it comes to the Mechanized Infantry subject.


So, now to your question.

mechanized infantry does not make sense in combat

From current Beta Patch 1.04.03:

• Mech-Infantry class units were not properly accounting for the number of men in the unit when firing at soft targets and thus were hitting less often than they should. Fixed.

This one massively affected their combat performance hntil now, so going forward they will perform as they should.

Additionally some time ago there was an issue you may have read with their CV which also already got fixed like a year or more ago. So their CV is now larger than this of a unmechanized squad (and can further be modded if one wants to mod it).

them being slow in combat etc, not moving as fast as vehicles they using(should be not case before they deployed).

I think you are referring to one of the older Threads about how they "work". There is an errata in the Living Manual which states:

Adjusted combat so that various Mechanized ground elements will be considered dismounted when shot at under 500 yards. Made it less likely they would be fired at by armored piercing direct fire at ranges over 500 yards.

The speed thing I can not give a 100% answer. It is only one of 10s of factors impacting performance, so it is hard to track/test speeds effects by increasing it.

and what's apcs exact role in combat?

From the previous quote I'd say it gives protection until a certain range and then it should give additional firepower (since the board MG is part of the squad/remains with the squad when they dismount).

As every game it had/has its flaws and no game can please everyone or is perfect. But subject of Mech Infantry should be working fine going forward.

Hope that helps.

---

Some more about the Combat system (in case you wonder).
- Artillery has a own Artillery Phase at the start of combat (some Guns also will fire at shorter ranges after that, some not)
- there is range dropoff for AP shell armor penetration
- a Tank's sides or front can be shot at by AT weapons, so a 45mm AT gun may occasionally kill a Panther and so on
- flamethrowers (afaik) hit the top of a tank
- attacks may be halted at longer ranges, so if you attack with a weak force you will often not enter/reach close combat

But despite this it is not a Combat Mission level Combat system (obviously not), the combat will always be a simplification, but imo a good/appropriate one for such a scaled game! At least I do not know about any other game having all the weapons properly simulated this way (range, penetration values ...).

[ncc1701e]

But despite this it is not a Combat Mission level Combat system (obviously not), the combat will always be a simplification, but imo a good/appropriate one for such a scaled game! At least I do not know about any other game having all the weapons properly simulated this way (range, penetration values ...).

Exactly and there is also something particular about this game. This is logistics. In this game, you will learn why performing an assault through swamps may not be a good idea for your truck pool.

[kutaycosar]

Generally, the combat is done in phases which get reduced in range and each range new weapons start shooting (since each weapon has logically its minimum range).

The game uses an, I'd call it 2-layered system of CV and Combat.
- CV gives a general idea of the strength of a unit but not an exact one, like Artillery has basically no CV but performs pretty good in combat, so it is not a 1:1 "translation". Devs describe it as something like "boots on the ground".
- Combat is then being done and it affects final CV by damaging, destroying or disrupting enemy Ground Elements. There is more to the system but not of interest when it comes to the Mechanized Infantry subject.


So, now to your question.

mechanized infantry does not make sense in combat

From current Beta Patch 1.04.03:

• Mech-Infantry class units were not properly accounting for the number of men in the unit when firing at soft targets and thus were hitting less often than they should. Fixed.

This one massively affected their combat performance hntil now, so going forward they will perform as they should.

Additionally some time ago there was an issue you may have read with their CV which also already got fixed like a year or more ago. So their CV is now larger than this of a unmechanized squad (and can further be modded if one wants to mod it).

them being slow in combat etc, not moving as fast as vehicles they using(should be not case before they deployed).

I think you are referring to one of the older Threads about how they "work". There is an errata in the Living Manual which states:

Adjusted combat so that various Mechanized ground elements will be considered dismounted when shot at under 500 yards. Made it less likely they would be fired at by armored piercing direct fire at ranges over 500 yards.

The speed thing I can not give a 100% answer. It is only one of 10s of factors impacting performance, so it is hard to track/test speeds effects by increasing it.

and what's apcs exact role in combat?

From the previous quote I'd say it gives protection until a certain range and then it should give additional firepower (since the board MG is part of the squad/remains with the squad when they dismount).

As every game it had/has its flaws and no game can please everyone or is perfect. But subject of Mech Infantry should be working fine going forward.

Hope that helps.

---

Some more about the Combat system (in case you wonder).
- Artillery has a own Artillery Phase at the start of combat (some Guns also will fire at shorter ranges after that, some not)
- there is range dropoff for AP shell armor penetration
- a Tank's sides or front can be shot at by AT weapons, so a 45mm AT gun may occasionally kill a Panther and so on
- flamethrowers (afaik) hit the top of a tank
- attacks may be halted at longer ranges, so if you attack with a weak force you will often not enter/reach close combat

But despite this it is not a Combat Mission level Combat system (obviously not), the combat will always be a simplification, but imo a good/appropriate one for such a scaled game! At least I do not know about any other game having all the weapons properly simulated this way (range, penetration values ...).

Thank you for detailed answers, I recall a previous discussion about the movement speed of mechanized infantry in combat. They seem to move as fast as regular infantry at maximum speed, even outside of that 500 meter range. if i remember correctly.

Additionally, as a TOAW (The Operational Art of War) player, I’m curious about artillery mechanics. Are there no long-range artillery units in the game that can fire two hexes away without requiring direct ground unit involvement? Some artillery types should reach those ranges easily. I mean, can we gustav cities from range?

[Wiedrock]

I recall a previous discussion about the movement speed of mechanized infantry in combat. They seem to move as fast as regular infantry at maximum speed, even outside of that 500 meter range. if i remember correctly.

Yes, every "Infantry Squad" has a speed of 6 (kmh/mph or so), no difference between Motorized, Mechanized anf Foot Infantry or Cavalry. It's somethign I also dislike but as said I don't even know if speed is used to determin combat performance at all since it is hard to test.

Additionally, as a TOAW (The Operational Art of War) player, I’m curious about artillery mechanics. Are there no long-range artillery units in the game that can fire two hexes away without requiring direct ground unit involvement? Some artillery types should reach those ranges easily. I mean, can we gustav cities from range?

The Soviet side has Artillery Divisions and Rocket Artillery Divisions/Brigades (Axis side has none) which can fire from 2 Hex distance (so they can fire over 1 friendly Hex). Those units can attack independently and with the normal frontline units combined. I don't know in which cases it would make sense to do independant long range bombardements instead of using those Artillery units as an addition to a serious attack.