German Separate Werfer SUs Manpower

[Wiedrock]

Similar to the issues with Artillery, the SUs seem to have too few men. In game they are "All" MOTorized .

Never forget, a Flammenwerfer werfs Flammen and a Nebelwerfer werfs Nebel!

Usual setup should have been about:
Note: some KSTNs are no longer available as it seems, additionally some of the larger calibers were planned to have their own KSTNs but it is noted that eventually the normal KSTNs for the smaller calibers were applied (I assume for a save in manpower).
Further, Lexikon der Wehrmacht is not listing a column for some/many of the larger caliber units, which (imo) does not make sense so I added them. Some are also noted to only have had a "Versorgungs Batterie" (Supply Battery) which would be about 20Men less.

Small Werfers 15cm: [OB:864, OB:865]

• Stab (Staff/HQ) ~12Men
• Stabsbatterie (HQ Battery) ~103Men
• 1.Batterie (Battery) 124Men (1944 - with 1xPak)
• 2.Batterie (Battery)
• 3.Batterie (Battery)
• Kolonne (Column) ~45Men

=532Men (in game 367Men)
Here the early 1941 variant is given as being 556Men. No mentioning of the Paks (I suppose the Paks were only later added - combinded with an reduction in manpower(as usual)).

Medium Werfers 21cm: [OB:871, OB:872]

• Stab (Staff/HQ) ~12Men
• Stabsbatterie (HQ Battery) ~103Men
• 1.Batterie (Battery) 141Men (1944 - with 1xPak)
• 2.Batterie (Battery)
• 3.Batterie (Battery)
• Kolonne (Column) ~45Men

=583Men (in game 403Men)

Heavy Werfers 28/30/32cm: [OB:874, OB:875]

• Stab (Staff/HQ) ~12Men
• Stabsbatterie (HQ Battery) ~103Men
• 1.Batterie (Battery) 141Men (1944 - with 1xPak)
• 2.Batterie (Battery)
• 3.Batterie (Battery)
• Kolonne (Column) ~45Men

=583Men (in game 403Men [28/32cm] and 443 [30cm])

Panzerwerfer 42:
Addition of 8x Panzerwerfer (see the "+8" guns) to Army Werfer units would add another 120Men (see KSTN 633) just for the 8 "gun" Battery, and yes it is 8 guns per Battery in this case [OB:867, OB:877, OB:880].

SS-Werfer-Abteilungen (SS Werfer Battalions):
See the Lexikon for some example strength reports. 600men ++ it is (without any "Panzerwerfer" - no matter which one).

If you have more info/can share sources (there are some books existing) on anything that let me know.

[MechFO]

1940 Manpower and other information for Nebelwerfer Regiment 51

Pages 102-108

These are for 8 werfer Batteries.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/4

KSTN for bespannte Werfer Batteries 1942

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

1943

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

Also some Artillerie summaries in the above.

[Wiedrock]

These are for 8 werfer Batteries.

Yea, 8 Werfers seems suspicious. Not sure when they changed to 6.
There's also the question about the one Pak per Battery added (later on(?)) n some TOEs.

KSTN for bespannte Werfer Batteries 1942

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

Good one, can also be found here. The problem is that in game all are MOT. Which also counts for your 3rd link.

[Wiedrock]

General
As pointed out, mostly Manpower additions necessary.
There is the question when the 1xPak per Battery was added, I can't say for sure, so eventually the earlier 1941 versions should not have any AT guns and they were only later added (when batteries were more likely to be overrun in the defence) in the 1944 variants. That's something that'd need some clarification - or simply removing the Pak from the 1941 varians and keeping them to the 1943 versions...

WOTE_German independent Werfers.png (156.51 KiB) Viewed 145 times

The early "Ind. Werfers" [OB:861, OB:862] ("Mortar Werfers") are not exact figures, but should be about alright (I hope).
There is this oddity with this KSTNs showing 6 or 8 Werfers per Battery, so not shure what's correct, the game (and Niehorster) using 6 gun batteries, but the numbers on this page are for 8 gun batteries, so some adjustments/guesses have been made.

Werfer KSTN 614 oddity.png (38.86 KiB) Viewed 145 times

OB:869 is also odd with having 20 Werfers, so somewhat guessed again.

SS
The SS needs to have the normal TOE without Panzerwerfers and with more manpower.
There is an optional TOE needed for those "removed batteries" from the normal TOE (there were only 2 batteries but way more Battalions).
Especially the 521st Battery seems odd, not sure what they were exactly equipped with when being created, in the end they where the testing bed for the optional Werfers (only 13 pieces ever produced), which only started being produced in late43/early44. There is the possibility of using captured Katyushas or other odd Werfers but that's just a guess.

WOTE_SS Werfer Battalion SUs_2.png (357.06 KiB) Viewed 140 times