machine guns in H2H

JimPY · Post by **JimPY** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:21 am

I know that this subject has been discussed earlier, but I am not sure of the solution. I am playing a scenario vs. AI as the US vs. Germany. The German machine guns are uncharasterically running from battle before even encountering my units. Since the Germans are defending, I opened the scenario in the editor and changed all the German mgs' speed to 0. I was wondering if another solution exists since this will not work if the AI side has to advance or assault.
I do like H2h fr, especially the German names.

Jim Yalem

VikingNo2 · Post by **VikingNo2** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:38 am

It's because how the move and shoot MGs were made, I believe they were originally pac mules that were modified.

I don't think there is anything you can do about it except buy the MGs that don't move and shoot

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:53 pm

JimPY wrote:I know that this subject has been discussed earlier, but I am not sure of the solution. I am playing a scenario vs. AI as the US vs. Germany. The German machine guns are uncharasterically running from battle before even encountering my units. Since the Germans are defending, I opened the scenario in the editor and changed all the German mgs' speed to 0. I was wondering if another solution exists since this will not work if the AI side has to advance or assault.
I do like H2h fr, especially the German names.

Jim Yalem

I haven't tried the "speed 0" solution, but I know when I did it with other units in the past they would often "repair" themselves and be able to move again. As a designer I have to switch all MMG's to HMG's (water-cooled) and then change weapons, etc., for the squad. The H2Hfr update wasn't supposed to impact older scenarios designed for H2H, but that's what's happening. For what it's worth, I intend to add "fr" to the name of scenarios I've designed with the update. As much as I like the fr version and applaud Panzer Leo's monumental efforts with H2H, I think the MMG situation has created more problems (from a design standpoint) than it's worth.

RockinHarry · Post by **RockinHarry** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:28 pm

REMF wrote:I haven't tried the "speed 0" solution, but I know when I did it with other units in the past they would often "repair" themselves and be able to move again. As a designer I have to switch all MMG's to HMG's (water-cooled) and then change weapons, etc., for the squad. The H2Hfr update wasn't supposed to impact older scenarios designed for H2H, but that's what's happening. For what it's worth, I intend to add "fr" to the name of scenarios I've designed with the update. As much as I like the fr version and applaud Panzer Leo's monumental efforts with H2H, I think the MMG situation has created more problems (from a design standpoint) than it's worth.

Well, I highly agree to Steve´s point of view. No wonder, it´s scenario makers (human vs. AI) point of view.

Maybe Panzer Leo adds the original common MMG´s to the norway or czech OOB, for use in human vs. AI designed user scenarios? That´s sort of stuff that I already contributed to V8.0 OOBs and we can do the same for H2H fr!

Make their availability December 1949 and don´t add formations, so that these units only can be added/replaced by scenario makers. This also helps keeping these units out of the AI picklist.

Well, scenario makers. Lets stick heads together! What do we need?
I´ll add common MMGs (MG34, MG42 ect.) and a loadable bunker/shelter that works better than the stuff we already have, is already added to my norway OOB (H2H fr). The solution simply is using "APC tracked" class. Other non-APC class drop their passengers when they take a hit by any ordnance!

JimPY · Post by **JimPY** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:09 pm

REMF wrote:I haven't tried the "speed 0" solution, but I know when I did it with other units in the past they would often "repair" themselves and be able to move again. As a designer I have to switch all MMG's to HMG's (water-cooled) and then change weapons, etc., for the squad. The H2Hfr update wasn't supposed to impact older scenarios designed for H2H, but that's what's happening. For what it's worth, I intend to add "fr" to the name of scenarios I've designed with the update. As much as I like the fr version and applaud Panzer Leo's monumental efforts with H2H, I think the MMG situation has created more problems (from a design standpoint) than it's worth.

Dear REMF; Thank you for the info on which mg's to use. I have not had a chance to get very far into the scenario with the mg's at 0 speed. They are german mg42s. I only changed the standalone mg42 units since when I got into the scenario the first time they were the ones retreating off the map. You are probably right about some of them repairing themselves. I agree that the fr version is excellent, but the mg situation dure is worse than the disease. I hope that Panzer Leo changes it back.

Jim Yalem

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:26 pm

RockinHarry wrote: Maybe Panzer Leo adds the original common MMG´s to the norway or czech OOB, for use in human vs. AI designed user scenarios? That´s sort of stuff that I already contributed to V8.0 OOBs and we can do the same for H2H fr! Make their availability December 1949 and don´t add formations, so that these units only can be added/replaced by scenario makers. This also helps keeping these units out of the AI picklist.

Well, scenario makers. Lets stick heads together! What do we need?
I´ll add common MMGs (MG34, MG42 ect.) and a loadable bunker/shelter that works better than the stuff we already have, is already added to my norway OOB (H2H fr). The solution simply is using "APC tracked" class. Other non-APC class drop their passengers when they take a hit by any ordnance!

Excellent idea, Harry! It would certainly be much easier to simply replace an MG42 (Laf) Grp, for instance, with an H2Hce version from the Norway Oob than to replace the H2Hfr unit with a Finnish HMG and then have to change the name and all the weapons. And the picture would be correct! Of course, there are those who say H2H is only for two player action, and in that case it wouldn't matter, but I want my scenarios to work against the AI also, which is why I go to the trouble to fixing them.

I haven't tried any of the bunkers yet, but they sound good, too.

JimPY · Post by **JimPY** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 2:13 am

I would like to thank all of you for your answers and information. I understand the situation. The Mg change benefits player to player play, at (unknowingly at the time) the expense of player v A!. So the solution seems to be to select mg's that behave as before fr and change their weapons back to the weapon in the scenario.
Or as you have discussed, creating units to replace the problem units in existing scenarios. Thanks again. I'll let you know how the 0 speed solution works when I finish the scenario that I am playing. I can tell you that I have encountered a German mg42 and did not the first time that I began playing the scenario.

Jim Yalem

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:34 pm

JimPY wrote:I would like to thank all of you for your answers and information. I understand the situation. The Mg change benefits player to player play, at (unknowingly at the time) the expense of player v A!. So the solution seems to be to select mg's that behave as before fr and change their weapons back to the weapon in the scenario.
Or as you have discussed, creating units to replace the problem units in existing scenarios. Thanks again. I'll let you know how the 0 speed solution works when I finish the scenario that I am playing. I can tell you that I have encountered a German mg42 and did not the first time that I began playing the scenario.

Jim Yalem

I'll be intrerested in knowing about the speed "fix," Jim. And BEWARE of the MG's in H2H - I walked a 12-man squad into one that was on a hill and it took out 10 of my guys!

JimPY · Post by **JimPY** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 1:13 am

REMF wrote:I'll be intrerested in knowing about the speed "fix," Jim. And BEWARE of the MG's in H2H - I walked a 12-man squad into one that was on a hill and it took out 10 of my guys!

Dear REMF; And the MG42 is the worst. So far they stand their ground, and do not retreat. I think that the speed 0 will work for the AI on delay or defend. It may be that since they are not a vehicle,they may not become mobile. I will know more after the end of the scenario.
They have caused some casualties, but tank support has eliminated them before too many casualties. They do force you to move your infantry 1-2 paces and they are hard to spot, as are the AT guns.
The search setting at 60 was a great idea. I use it when playing all the SP variants and it improves play in all of them.

Jim Yalem

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:02 am

JimPY wrote:Dear REMF; And the MG42 is the worst. So far they stand their ground, and do not retreat. I think that the speed 0 will work for the AI on delay or defend. It may be that since they are not a vehicle,they may not become mobile. I will know more after the end of the scenario.
They have caused some casualties, but tank support has eliminated them before too many casualties. They do force you to move your infantry 1-2 paces and they are hard to spot, as are the AT guns.
The search setting at 60 was a great idea. I use it when playing all the SP variants and it improves play in all of them.

Jim Yalem

Unfortunately the speed fix won't work for me, since I design so battles can be fought from either side vs the AI (usually), as well as human vs human.

That 60 search setting is something I don't think is necessary. It's hard enough to spot units in H2H. All my scenarios are designed with the original default settings, those being search 100 and C & C off.

JimPY · Post by **JimPY** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:10 pm

REMF; I agree with you about the speed 0 solution. It will only work for the player who after selecting his or her side, then uses the editor to set opposing mgs' speed to 0. And that only works if the player's side is advancing or assaulting.

Jim Yalem

JimPY · Post by **JimPY** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:33 am

Okay, I finished the scenario with the German mg42s' speed set to 0. All but one remained on the map or were destroyed. I may have missed the one that retreated off the map. I would say that the solution works if your side is advancing or assaulting. I am sure that others will come up with a better solution.

Jim Yalem