Arty

[soeren]

How do I find out how many shifts an artillery unit gives me for combat ? The only way I found is to committ to the battle and see how many shifts you get. Can you see it somewhere with the unit info ?

Soeren

[Belisarius]

How do I find out how many shifts an artillery unit gives me for combat ? The only way I found is to committ to the battle and see how many shifts you get. Can you see it somewhere with the unit info ?

Soeren

Yep, look at the "assault" bar in the unit info. The number within the purple hex is the range of the unit, and in the blue bar you'll see the outlines of one or more guns. That's how many shifts they provide.

(disclaimer: I pulled this right out of my head w/o verifying....)

[Rob Gjessing]

Yep.. select the unit, in the right hand 'unit' panel you will see details of the unit (and any other units in the stack). The black 'guns' running left to right represent the number of shifts for attack and the number of shifts for defence.

Some Art only provide shifts for attack and some only provide shifts for defence.

I think I did an article on this over at wacht am rhein - yeah here it is -
http://stuff.robjess.com/archives/000303.html#000303

(Is the insert link/url) function playing up? I cant seem to insert a link!? Apart from copying the address straight into the message..

[Fred98]

There is a screen shot a part of the way down that web page.

Its shows some odds of 7-1

It also shows Shift + 4

But I would have thought that the shifts are: 6 + 1 + 1 – 1 = Shifts + 7

Why does it say Shifts + 4 ?

Joe

[Fred98]

[There was a comment that some artillery can only provide attack shifts and some can only provide defensive shift. Can we have this point clarified.

I am aware that in any given battle, the attacker can only apply a maximum number of arty (as shown on the toolbar). But what about the defender? Is the defender limited to a max number of arty units?

And I read a comment somewhere that arty could be used in EITHER attack or defence in one turn. Perhaps I misread something. Please clarify.

[Rob Gjessing]

Ok here we go.. the things I do The way you can tell how many shifts an ART will provide in combat is by right clicking the unit or selecting the unit, and viewing its details in the pop up - or in the right hand panel.

Lets look at this one as an example:



This unit has a range of 5 (reflected by the number 5 on the first blue background on the bottom row) and will contribute 1 attack shift in combat (reflected by the black single cannon on the same blue background). It has a defence value of 3 (reflected on the second blue background on the bottom row) and will contribute 1 defence shift if within range (5 hexes) of any combat. The details on the orange panel on the bottom row relate to movement.





This one, is the same as above, but it will NOT contribute towards any shifts in defence. Note there is no black cannon on the defence data panel (the second blue panel on the bottom row).




This one, has a range of 5 still, but it can NOT be used in attack - as it doesnt have a black cannon on the attack panel (first blue one), but it can contribute 2 shifts in defence.




This one is a monster! It has a range of 20 and will contribute 3 shifts in combat, it has a defensive value of 30 and it will contribute 3 shifts in defense. And of course no such unit exists.. I created it myself in the editor Mind you I wouldnt mind a few of the German kind to use in my PBEM game against Chris..

[IJN_Shinano]

Ok here we go.. the things I do

Rob:

Yes...the things you do... and they're greatly appreciated!

Excellent explanation on arty fundamentals via the interface. Thanks a bunch!

[Rob Gjessing]

There is a screen shot a part of the way down that web page.

Its shows some odds of 7-1

It also shows Shift + 4

But I would have thought that the shifts are: 6 + 1 + 1 – 1 = Shifts + 7

Why does it say Shifts + 4 ?

Joe

Ok the odds have been calculated like this:


note that the image quality has been reduced due to sizing and compression - sorry!

Reading Right to left from the combat panel:

Attack Shifts
+6 shifts for ART
+1 shift for barrage
+1 shift for leadership
Total Attacker Positive Shifts is +8

Defence Shifts
Defenders always get -3 shifts - but the attacking force is getting two postitive shifts from the directions it is attacking - This can be confirmed by the two green arrow heads to the extreme right of the panel. Note that whilst they are actually attacking from 3 directions.. they are only getting 2 shifts (the direction reflected by the orange arrow head isnt contributing to a shift as they have units adjecent to them). So therefore, -3 defence shifts but the attacker has 2 tactical shifts, so this equates to:
-1 defence shift
-2 ART defence shifts

And then notice up on the blue banner where it says 22 (thats the defence strength) - see the additional -1 : this is an additional -1 shift because the defending units are Elite! So:
-1 Elite
Total Defence shifts is -4

So all up, attack is +8 shifts, defence is -4 shifts, so the result should be +4 shifts to the attacker!

[Rob Gjessing]

[Is the defender limited to a max number of arty units?

And I read a comment somewhere that arty could be used in EITHER attack or defence in one turn. Perhaps I misread something. Please clarify.

All Defensive ART is handled automatically by the Engine - you just need to make sure its within range of any potential combat to be used.

One ART unit will be assigned to combat for each potential die used. So generally one die is used to determine combat, so therefore one ART will be used in defense. The AI will use your BEST art unit for the job - so if both a -1 shift and a -2 shift unit are in range, then the -2 will be used.

If there is any chance that two die will be used in combat (even if it ends up not using 2) - then 2 ART units will be used in defense.

Art units can be used any number of times in the same defending turn.


Phew! Im all Arty'd out now

[Belisarius]

Well done Rob! I think you wrapped it all up for all inquistive minds! Grasping how the shift system works is essential for the whole game, I think.

(btw, how do you snap screenshots?)

[Rob Gjessing]

Grabbing screen shots, I just use the standard Windows method of pressing Prnt Scr on my keyboard, it should dump whatevere is on your screen to the clipboard. I then open up a paint program, like Photoshop, MS Paint, Paint Shop Pro - whatever - and then select Paste to paste from the clip board.

That should do the trick.. I then edit the image in the paint program and just select the bit that I need..

Lemme know you need any more help..

[Do I get the friendliest user award ]

[Fred98]

Belisarius,

Download yourself a free copy of Hypersnap. Its easy to use.

TAO2, tried to list all the attacking shifts in a column and all the defensive shifts in an adjacent column to the right.

That lay out needs a little tweaking but I think it is better than the current layout.

In an early screen shot of KP, there is a new combat screen. It was clearly decided that it would not be used.

My preference is to go back to the old combat screen but with a bit of tweaking.


PS:

As the attacker, the old combat screen allowed me to see any steps I lost in combat. The new screen doesn’t show this.

[Rob Gjessing]

I actually prefer the KP combat screen over the TAO2 one.

As the attacker, you are told how many lost steps you take as a result of any combat. Its shown the die is rolled and is indicated on the combat odds table.. so in the 7-1 odds example above, if a 6 was rolled, then the * - D1 results would be highlited - indicating no losses to the attacker. If a 4 was rolled the A1-D1 would be highlited and you would know that received a 1 step loss.

If you specifically want to know what unit recieved the loss - then you just inspect them after the combat routine

[Belisarius]

Ok the odds have been calculated like this:

Offtopic, but an interesting question:

Would you attack in this position?

[Fred98]

My S.O.P is that I need 4 out of 6 chances for success or I don't bowl the dice.

[Rob Gjessing]

Good question!

I did

It really depends on the situation though doesnt it.. 50/50 chance of inflicting casualties.. and that a 25% chance of using 2 die - which gives u another 50/50 of additional casualties. If there was a retreat possibility I would for sure.

But as I said it depends.. if the defenders are in a position of being able to replace any steps then you would think twice in that situation wouldnt you.

If I was playing this again though, I would try and attack at the hex behind the urban one which is being attacked now.. thats clear and a good chance of getting a retreat.. if he comes back into that hex next turn.. keep attacking until he doesnt advance back into it.. and then if you are lucky u can cross the river and attack that urban from another side and maybe get an additional shift.. maybe..

Roger always told me that its hard to attack a urban hex.. and I agree.. he thinks its better to try and convince them to leave of their own accord.. attack around it.. cut them off etc..

You probably didnt want a long answer did u? Sorry if you were looking for a yes no response

[Belisarius]

Rob, I was looking for some kind of elaborate answer.

I would, too, attack in this situation I think, not knowing more about the game sitaution than what can be seen in that shot. As you say, a 50/50 chance of inflicting casualties, and the possibility for a double dice makes it interesting, and possibly quite rewarding.

Then again, the hex to the left of the town is a juicy bait. :p