Time to Beat a dead horse, again?

[gottagofish]

After playing WitP AE as Allies for years, I decided to try as Japan and test out with the Production system. The factory expansion/repair makes little sense to me. It costs 100 Supply points, 10 HI and 10 MP points to expand one factory point. It costs 1000 supply points to repair one factory point. Does that mean, it costs you the expansion cost to create the damaged factory points and then the repair costs to un-damage the created factory points? Or do the damaged factory points from the expansion, repair at no additional supply costs?

At 1000 supply points to repair, that means it takes 1000 days to recover the supply costs for LI and Refinery factory repair, and 500 days for HI repair (output of 2 supply points per factory point). So, I wouldn't want to repair a LI factory after Nov. 1, 1942 and would have to question repairing HI after May, 1944, (give or take a few days), as you never recover the supply cost in new production. For refinery factories, you likely need the fuel no matter the supply loss.

I see you can change the repair costs thru the editor. What amount makes sense to change it to?

Am I thinking correctly about this?

[zebrazwo]

1100 supply for a new factory point (repaired).

So when you add 30 factories - 30 * 1100 = 33000 supply.

And yes, it takes a while to get the supply spent back, but all the while you are increasing HI (or whatever you expanded) also.

It's a question of priorities to start with . don't expand everything at once or else you won't have supplies for the troops etc. In other words it's a good idea to have a plan.

There's quite a few excel tools around to help with JFB production and lots of AARs to look at for ideas, both of what works and what doesn't

[LargeSlowTarget]

Japan did not have the capacity to massively expand its industrial output in short order during WWII. The country still had one foot in the medieval ages, with a largely agrarian society, little mechanisation and production based on skilled craftsmanship rather than mass production. The government was basically clueless (proof - they decided to attack the mighty USA!) and had no real plans for a "war economy", the country lacked skilled manpower (Japan had good engineers, but in limited numbers), machine tools, natural resources etc. necessary for rapid expansion. And unlike the average Joe in the USA of the 1930s-40s, who was familiar with cars and had a basic understanding of the mechanics of engines, trains, planes and other machinery, the average Yoshio in Japan was used to backbreaking manual labour on a farm with very little or no modern mechanisation. Guess who could be turned into an industrial workforce (or pilots, tank drivers, stokers, and maintenance and repair mechanics) more easily? Furthermore, Japan was hesitant to fully mobilise its female population into the industrial workforce due to cultural constraints. Japan's industrial potential was one tenth of the USA's - and it was practically nearing its peak in 1941, while the US still had a lot of untapped manpower and resources. Just a few figures - in 1939, Japan produced 6.7 million tons of steel, production peaked in 1943 with not much more - 7.65 million tons (+14%). USA: 47.9 million tons in 1939, peak in 1944 with 81.3 million tons (+70%).

In the game, the existing restrictions via supply costs help to keep the industry expansion of Japan within reasonable limits.
Still, a skilled Japanese player can tweak the economy far beyond what Japan achieved historically, esp. in aircraft production.
If you want to make it still easier for Japan to expand factories, you are skewing the game 'balance' (and history!)- and the Allied player has no possibility to adapt to the circumstances because his production numbers are fixed.

In my opinion, Japan should be able to produce enough supplies to keep on fighting on the ground until 1945 (which means in the air as well unfortunately, for lack of an "avgas" item in the econ setup - but that can be controlled via engine/airframe production and pilot pools).
But it should have a hard time to expand heavy industries and all factories using HI points, esp. engines and airframes, because it is realistic.
Means reducing the repair costs for LI and actually increasing the costs for HI, engines, airframes, refineries and shipyards.

[gottagofish]

Thanks for the background of the need to limit industry expansion to follow the real limitations faced by Japan. But, from a practical game standpoint, if your LI factory is damaged on Jan. 1, 1943 10 factors which cost you 10,000 supply to repair, and say the game is over on Aug. 31, 1945 (973 days), you recover only 9,685 supplies (10 factories times 973 days less the 45 lost to 1 factory repair per day) after paying the 10,000 in supplies. So, you are better off keeping the 10,000 supplies rather than repairing the LI factory damage.

You are right that the other factories have other out-puts that change this equation.

[zebrazwo]

You mention it yourself, there are many factors to take into consideration about what to repair/expand, and LST mentions a good point to about the realistic ability of Japan to actually increase it's output.

So fire up a spreadsheet and make some goals and a plan, according to the way you want to play.

[Sardaukar]

If you think that first Zero prototype was taken to airfield by animal-drawn cart...from the Mitsubishi factory in Nagoya to the Kagamigahara airfield.

That gives the idea.