Don't Understand This

[actrade]

Virtually every unit I have on Mallorca has a message stating no HQ to give guidance. However, it looks like they should so I'm not understanding something.

[Dreamslayer]

Isn't it about that the static status is finished?

[actrade]

Sorry I don't understand what you mean? All of these units are active and in the same hex.

[RangerJoe]

Virtually every unit I have on Mallorca has a message stating no HQ to give guidance. However, it looks like they should so I'm not understanding something.

I covered that in my AAR. It is on page 4 . . .

[actrade]

Read it, still not clear what is going on. Really trying to like this game but trying my patience. User manual is VERY unclear on a great many things and this coming from a guy who owns the hardcopy of WITPAE manual, WITE2 manual amongst others. I wish I was knowledgable enough to do 1 page manuals like in WITE2 that breaks down basic parts of the game because I feel like I'm trying to solve a puzzle. And yes, I always try to search the manual before posting here but using key words doesn't often offer up any solutions.

[nanni]

You have my fullest backing. When I complained right after the game was published about the manual all I got was a written shrug and a not very polite one at that.
The truth is that the current WiS manual is still badly written, opaque, and incomplete, even in its second iteration.
WiS does not exist in a vacuum. It's part of the Matrix Games. MG has published a number of complicated games with good manuals, WITE2 or WITP-AE for example. WiS's programming is even based on WITP-AE's.
Therefore, WIS developers, download some other recent MG manuals, read them, compare and contrast with yours and come out with something which is worthy of Matrix Games's excellent reputation.

[actrade]

I'm 60 years old and have been playing war games since I was a kid. I know what RTFM means and I'm MORE than happy to do so. In fact, that's why I've paid extra to possess either hard copies from the game developer, or had the PDF professionally printed and bound by online companies that do that sort of thing (like WITPAE for example as I came into that game long after a printed, hardcopy manual was available if it ever was). My problem with this game is that I'll do a word search or couple words in some cases like HQ or headquarters, which pulls up 50 hits and there is NOTHING about this issue remotely close that I can assertain. While I certainly appreciate offers to read AARs, if you can't find the answer in the manual, something is definately amiss. I think there is a hidden gem of a game engine here, but my patience is wearing extremely thin.

What I completely fail to comprehend is the following: why is there not an example in the manual of a walkthrough of the tutorial invasion of the islands? I have searched high and low (including Canaae's excellent tutorial) for a written or video that offers somewhat step by step instructions on how to successfully complete the tutoria (which I have not been able to do despite multiple attempts). While I appreciate Canaae's tutorial, he is just a private citizen very slowly putting out videos now nearly two months after release that is far from complete. I tried Jochem's tutorials, including #7 about the islands, but these are VERY rudimentary about very basic controls and don't give nearly enough information. I have long believed that if you want to do a proper tutorial, have a complete newb try it and see where he struggles. I would think the overwhelming majority of threads here on the forums would be answered with a good tutorial. Having playing WITPAE, there are MANY tutorials of this nature online and to be fair, it is much older so has had a lot more time for user driven content. I also found that manual MUCH more clear and concise and any questions I had I could mostly find there. That simply is not the case with WiS manual.

Ultimately, it is up to the developers and/or Matrix, but this game pales terribly in comparison teaching the game vs. other, hardcore games like WITE, WITE2, WITW, Flashpoint Campaigns and a plethora of other, detailed war games that I've played and continued to play over the years. Passing off these concerns to other community members to educate players doesn't seem to make a great deal of business sense to me, especially if the plan is to use the game engine to produce follow up titles. Chopping up a monster of a game like this into bite size bits seems like a no brainer to me, yet many of the more knowledgable community members jumped straight into the grand campaign doing AARS that are even more difficult to follow than what is supposed to be a "simple" tutorial campaign.

I don't like to complain without offering a solution so I would propose a "real", step by step tutorial either in the manual or as a separate PDF for new players to use that breaks down steps that advanced players already know by heart. I hate to use the phrase "idiot proof" but that's what a basic tutorial should be. I would also add sections within this document that specifically covers issues that are likely to come up that are plastered all over the forums by people like myself searching for answers. I've played a TON of wargames, prefering the more hardcore and for some reason, this one has given me the most trouble. I'm frustrated beyond belief and hoping Matrix and/or devs remedy this situation at some point.

[Dreamslayer]

Maybe Matrix could made its own Wiki like other games have.
E.g. - https://imperator.paradoxwikis.com/Imperator_Wiki

[Thogode]

I've played a TON of wargames, prefering the more hardcore and for some reason, this one has given me the most trouble. I'm frustrated beyond belief and hoping Matrix and/or devs remedy this situation at some point.

Sad but true.
I would like to support every single line you wrote. If you have to study numerous AAR to get the basics there is something woefully wrong.
And is looks like there was no quality assurance on behalf of Matrix.

[RangerJoe]

Some information:

1) The person who initially wrote the manual (from my understanding) is not a native English speaker of any English language vernacular. In fact, He probably knew at least 2 languages prior to learning English.

2) I have offered to post on my AAR information with pictures to those who request it. I have had no specific requests for information there or by DM that I did not answer.

3) I did look at the manual while I was testing the game but I learned to play before the manual was really written.

4) I did offer to proofread the entire manual and I did suggest changes to areas that I was familiar with but I did not go over the entire manual.

5) I did offer to make a tutorial with information and pictures before the release but this did not happen.

6) Modified information from my AAR was put into a document along with the pictures to help some people understand it better. But that document may not help you at this time in the format that it is in. The last series of posts with one picture per post was also put into a document before I posted it on my AAR. This was then modified as well in the same way to help some people understand it better. But again, this may not help you in the format that it is in. I also don't have a link to where these documents are posted either.

So again, if you need information on how to do something, ask me and I will post it on my AAR. I will NOT constantly answer the same question over and over again. You are free to copy what I post on my AAR and modify it any way that you like.

[actrade]

I don't think anyone is calling you out Joe. I think some of us who have bought a lot of Matrix/Slitherine games are just disappointed at the quality of official/initial support in the form of a proper manual/tutorial. It kind of reminds me of someone labeling and telling me all the parts on a nuclear reactor, but not actually teaching me how to run it. The manual is extremely thorough in terms of pointing out what differnt parts of the UI are and what each unit is, it just doesn't do a very good job of helping us understand how to use them. In addition, I resent the fact that I'm expected to read a community member's AAR and/or video tutorial to learn how to play a game. Now, if Matrix authorizes and compensates said community member as an official tutorial, that's different but that isn't the case here. What's most irritating is the fact that I'm sure there would have been several community members willing to proof the manual and/or put up short, concise tutorial units (much like WITE2) as addendums to the official manual. To be quite honest, I'm about at the end of my rope as to how much more time I'm going to put in looking for answers outside of an official manual/tutorial. Such a shame as I think there is really something here, but it may die an early death without better support.

For the life of me, I simply don't understand a lot of the decisions around this game. There was virtually no hype pre-release on Matrix's own website. Upon release, it wasn't even on the main Matrix store page for at least a day or more as you had to click inside the website to even find it. Finally, upon launch of a new, intricate wargame, the dev usually has either a step by step guide tutorial in the manual or an addendum on how to get started. At the very least, there is a video series on YT with the same. Joachem's "offcial" tutorial is basically just more of the same with the manual as he doesn't go in depth as to WHY to do a lot of things, simply "move units near Valencia to Valencia to attack Iziba" or "move units near Barcelona to Barca to attack Palma." He doesn't even start his attack on Palma before the video ends and interestingly, at the 40 minute mark of his tutorial video on the islands, he has a bunch of units on his operations report that show no HQ available to give guidance, which is what I started this thread on. That's pretty darn general instructions and no offense to Jochem as I'm sure he's getting little or nothing from Matrix even with his videos linked on the game menu. What's so odd is one only need look at WITE2 to see how to properly do it with their 9 one-page guides. I know, different dev, but same publisher and I would think anyone who is playing WiS or working on it has probably played WITE/WITE2.

For now, I'm basically stuck as I still don't know how to fix the "no HQ available to give guidance" issue even after looking at Joe's AAR. I did PM alessandro hoping for a better explanation as a quote from him is referenced on Joe's page 4 of his AAR so if I learn something, I will share it with the community hopefully in easy to understand terms. In summary, I don't know if Matrix dropped the ball or if it was the devs, I just know I'm disappointed.

[RangerJoe]

I don't think anyone is calling you out Joe. I think some of us who have bought a lot of Matrix/Slitherine games are just disappointed at the quality of official/initial support in the form of a proper manual/tutorial. It kind of reminds me of someone labeling and telling me all the parts on a nuclear reactor, but not actually teaching me how to run it. The manual is extremely thorough in terms of pointing out what differnt parts of the UI are and what each unit is, it just doesn't do a very good job of helping us understand how to use them. In addition, I resent the fact that I'm expected to read a community member's AAR and/or video tutorial to learn how to play a game. Now, if Matrix authorizes and compensates said community member as an official tutorial, that's different but that isn't the case here. What's most irritating is the fact that I'm sure there would have been several community members willing to proof the manual and/or put up short, concise tutorial units (much like WITE2) as addendums to the official manual. To be quite honest, I'm about at the end of my rope as to how much more time I'm going to put in looking for answers outside of an official manual/tutorial. Such a shame as I think there is really something here, but it may die an early death without better support.

For the life of me, I simply don't understand a lot of the decisions around this game. There was virtually no hype pre-release on Matrix's own website. Upon release, it wasn't even on the main Matrix store page for at least a day or more as you had to click inside the website to even find it. Finally, upon launch of a new, intricate wargame, the dev usually has either a step by step guide tutorial in the manual or an addendum on how to get started. At the very least, there is a video series on YT with the same. Joachem's "offcial" tutorial is basically just more of the same with the manual as he doesn't go in depth as to WHY to do a lot of things, simply "move units near Valencia to Valencia to attack Iziba" or "move units near Barcelona to Barca to attack Palma." He doesn't even start his attack on Palma before the video ends and interestingly, at the 40 minute mark of his tutorial video on the islands, he has a bunch of units on his operations report that show no HQ available to give guidance, which is what I started this thread on. That's pretty darn general instructions and no offense to Jochem as I'm sure he's getting little or nothing from Matrix even with his videos linked on the game menu. What's so odd is one only need look at WITE2 to see how to properly do it with their 9 one-page guides. I know, different dev, but same publisher and I would think anyone who is playing WiS or working on it has probably played WITE/WITE2.

For now, I'm basically stuck as I still don't know how to fix the "no HQ available to give guidance" issue even after looking at Joe's AAR. I did PM alessandro hoping for a better explanation as a quote from him is referenced on Joe's page 4 of his AAR so if I learn something, I will share it with the community hopefully in easy to understand terms. In summary, I don't know if Matrix dropped the ball or if it was the devs, I just know I'm disappointed.

What that "no HQ available to give guidance" means is that there is no immediate HQ to receive orders from so it gets it directly from the higher headquarters. That is all. So until the column/regiment/brigade/division HQs are active and within range of the battalion or smaller units, then they would get the orders directly from the higher HQ. Then when the units consolidate, the battalions or smaller units will get orders from their immediate HQ which still might get their orders directly from the higher HQ until the divisional HQ come in. It is not a serious problem unless there aren't enough HQs in their area to give all of the units there guidance.

[Piteas]

It's true that many aspects aren't developed with the necessary depth.
I've been compiling notes from Joe's AARs to translate them into spanish. I already have a guide on logistics and another on unit management.

I'll be uploading them now (retranslated into English). For example, this is a short guide on logistics units, which I hope you find useful. They will likely be added in a future patch:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11FcYLm ... sp=sharing

[actrade]

I don't think anyone is calling you out Joe. I think some of us who have bought a lot of Matrix/Slitherine games are just disappointed at the quality of official/initial support in the form of a proper manual/tutorial. It kind of reminds me of someone labeling and telling me all the parts on a nuclear reactor, but not actually teaching me how to run it. The manual is extremely thorough in terms of pointing out what differnt parts of the UI are and what each unit is, it just doesn't do a very good job of helping us understand how to use them. In addition, I resent the fact that I'm expected to read a community member's AAR and/or video tutorial to learn how to play a game. Now, if Matrix authorizes and compensates said community member as an official tutorial, that's different but that isn't the case here. What's most irritating is the fact that I'm sure there would have been several community members willing to proof the manual and/or put up short, concise tutorial units (much like WITE2) as addendums to the official manual. To be quite honest, I'm about at the end of my rope as to how much more time I'm going to put in looking for answers outside of an official manual/tutorial. Such a shame as I think there is really something here, but it may die an early death without better support.

For the life of me, I simply don't understand a lot of the decisions around this game. There was virtually no hype pre-release on Matrix's own website. Upon release, it wasn't even on the main Matrix store page for at least a day or more as you had to click inside the website to even find it. Finally, upon launch of a new, intricate wargame, the dev usually has either a step by step guide tutorial in the manual or an addendum on how to get started. At the very least, there is a video series on YT with the same. Joachem's "offcial" tutorial is basically just more of the same with the manual as he doesn't go in depth as to WHY to do a lot of things, simply "move units near Valencia to Valencia to attack Iziba" or "move units near Barcelona to Barca to attack Palma." He doesn't even start his attack on Palma before the video ends and interestingly, at the 40 minute mark of his tutorial video on the islands, he has a bunch of units on his operations report that show no HQ available to give guidance, which is what I started this thread on. That's pretty darn general instructions and no offense to Jochem as I'm sure he's getting little or nothing from Matrix even with his videos linked on the game menu. What's so odd is one only need look at WITE2 to see how to properly do it with their 9 one-page guides. I know, different dev, but same publisher and I would think anyone who is playing WiS or working on it has probably played WITE/WITE2.

For now, I'm basically stuck as I still don't know how to fix the "no HQ available to give guidance" issue even after looking at Joe's AAR. I did PM alessandro hoping for a better explanation as a quote from him is referenced on Joe's page 4 of his AAR so if I learn something, I will share it with the community hopefully in easy to understand terms. In summary, I don't know if Matrix dropped the ball or if it was the devs, I just know I'm disappointed.

What that "no HQ available to give guidance" means is that there is no immediate HQ to receive orders from so it gets it directly from the higher headquarters. That is all. So until the column/regiment/brigade/division HQs are active and within range of the battalion or smaller units, then they would get the orders directly from the higher HQ. Then when the units consolidate, the battalions or smaller units will get orders from their immediate HQ which still might get their orders directly from the higher HQ until the divisional HQ come in. It is not a serious problem unless there aren't enough HQs in their area to give all of the units there guidance.

That makes perfect sense to me Joe, but what I'm having difficulty with MAY be tied to the tutorial. If I'm looking at this correctly, I don't have anything higher than a RGT HQ currently (other than the two theatre HQs) and there are no HHQ inbound (see original part of thread for an example of a current unit, plus this example of inbound units). This suggests to me that all of my HHQs are already on map and I've checked each unit on the operations report generating a "no immediate HQ" message and all have their immediate HQ (column/div/rgt) in the same hex as the subordinate units. Does this mean that there is a brigade/division HQ that simply doesn't factor into the tutorial scenario that is generating this error as it hasn't or won't arrive by the time the scenario ends? I hate to sound obtuse, but I'm certainly feeling that way .

[actrade]

It's true that many aspects aren't developed with the necessary depth.
I've been compiling notes from Joe's AARs to translate them into spanish. I already have a guide on logistics and another on unit management.

I'll be uploading them now (retranslated into English). For example, this is a short guide on logistics units, which I hope you find useful. They will likely be added in a future patch:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11FcYLm ... sp=sharing

Please take all of this as constructive criticism as there are FAR too few games like this out there and the thought of adding new games using the same game engine is mouth watering. I will admit the SCW isn't really my cup of tea, but I've learned a lot about it through the game and am starting to enjoy it. Plus, most of us are comparing this game to other, fully polished games and that might not be fair. With that said, that doesn't diminish the fact that a more elaborate set of one page guides, PDF and/or video tutorials of at LEAST the tutorial scenario are much needed and I would argue that one on logistics (which is what your post is talking about and/or providing) would be very helpful as well. Most if not all of the players attracted to a game like this are willing to RTFM, but the manual has to provide clear, concise examples of game play in addition to just the nuts and bolts of telling us what a unit is, which unfortunately is where I think the current manual currently is at.

[RangerJoe]

I don't think anyone is calling you out Joe. I think some of us who have bought a lot of Matrix/Slitherine games are just disappointed at the quality of official/initial support in the form of a proper manual/tutorial. It kind of reminds me of someone labeling and telling me all the parts on a nuclear reactor, but not actually teaching me how to run it. The manual is extremely thorough in terms of pointing out what differnt parts of the UI are and what each unit is, it just doesn't do a very good job of helping us understand how to use them. In addition, I resent the fact that I'm expected to read a community member's AAR and/or video tutorial to learn how to play a game. Now, if Matrix authorizes and compensates said community member as an official tutorial, that's different but that isn't the case here. What's most irritating is the fact that I'm sure there would have been several community members willing to proof the manual and/or put up short, concise tutorial units (much like WITE2) as addendums to the official manual. To be quite honest, I'm about at the end of my rope as to how much more time I'm going to put in looking for answers outside of an official manual/tutorial. Such a shame as I think there is really something here, but it may die an early death without better support.

For the life of me, I simply don't understand a lot of the decisions around this game. There was virtually no hype pre-release on Matrix's own website. Upon release, it wasn't even on the main Matrix store page for at least a day or more as you had to click inside the website to even find it. Finally, upon launch of a new, intricate wargame, the dev usually has either a step by step guide tutorial in the manual or an addendum on how to get started. At the very least, there is a video series on YT with the same. Joachem's "offcial" tutorial is basically just more of the same with the manual as he doesn't go in depth as to WHY to do a lot of things, simply "move units near Valencia to Valencia to attack Iziba" or "move units near Barcelona to Barca to attack Palma." He doesn't even start his attack on Palma before the video ends and interestingly, at the 40 minute mark of his tutorial video on the islands, he has a bunch of units on his operations report that show no HQ available to give guidance, which is what I started this thread on. That's pretty darn general instructions and no offense to Jochem as I'm sure he's getting little or nothing from Matrix even with his videos linked on the game menu. What's so odd is one only need look at WITE2 to see how to properly do it with their 9 one-page guides. I know, different dev, but same publisher and I would think anyone who is playing WiS or working on it has probably played WITE/WITE2.

For now, I'm basically stuck as I still don't know how to fix the "no HQ available to give guidance" issue even after looking at Joe's AAR. I did PM alessandro hoping for a better explanation as a quote from him is referenced on Joe's page 4 of his AAR so if I learn something, I will share it with the community hopefully in easy to understand terms. In summary, I don't know if Matrix dropped the ball or if it was the devs, I just know I'm disappointed.

What that "no HQ available to give guidance" means is that there is no immediate HQ to receive orders from so it gets it directly from the higher headquarters. That is all. So until the column/regiment/brigade/division HQs are active and within range of the battalion or smaller units, then they would get the orders directly from the higher HQ. Then when the units consolidate, the battalions or smaller units will get orders from their immediate HQ which still might get their orders directly from the higher HQ until the divisional HQ come in. It is not a serious problem unless there aren't enough HQs in their area to give all of the units there guidance.

That makes perfect sense to me Joe, but what I'm having difficulty with MAY be tied to the tutorial. If I'm looking at this correctly, I don't have anything higher than a RGT HQ currently (other than the two theatre HQs) and there are no HHQ inbound (see original part of thread for an example of a current unit, plus this example of inbound units). This suggests to me that all of my HHQs are already on map and I've checked each unit on the operations report generating a "no immediate HQ" message and all have their immediate HQ (column/div/rgt) in the same hex as the subordinate units. Does this mean that there is a brigade/division HQ that simply doesn't factor into the tutorial scenario that is generating this error as it hasn't or won't arrive by the time the scenario ends? I hate to sound obtuse, but I'm certainly feeling that way .

The units in the tutorial scenario are in the main campaign with no changes. In the campaign scenario, most if not all of the units will have higher divisional and/or corp level HQs. So those two theatre HQs will suffice in the tutorial and will give the necessary guidance and assistance that your units need.

What is driving this message which is not necessarily an error is simply that the higher level HQ in the TO&E/organization is not available so the higher level HQs are taking care of things. Once those HQs come in, the divisional level HQs have a range of 24 hexes but only assist their own units only, these messages should decrease. There are independent units that are lower level than the divisions and those would be directed by the higher level HQs anyway.

[actrade]

What that "no HQ available to give guidance" means is that there is no immediate HQ to receive orders from so it gets it directly from the higher headquarters. That is all. So until the column/regiment/brigade/division HQs are active and within range of the battalion or smaller units, then they would get the orders directly from the higher HQ. Then when the units consolidate, the battalions or smaller units will get orders from their immediate HQ which still might get their orders directly from the higher HQ until the divisional HQ come in. It is not a serious problem unless there aren't enough HQs in their area to give all of the units there guidance.

That makes perfect sense to me Joe, but what I'm having difficulty with MAY be tied to the tutorial. If I'm looking at this correctly, I don't have anything higher than a RGT HQ currently (other than the two theatre HQs) and there are no HHQ inbound (see original part of thread for an example of a current unit, plus this example of inbound units). This suggests to me that all of my HHQs are already on map and I've checked each unit on the operations report generating a "no immediate HQ" message and all have their immediate HQ (column/div/rgt) in the same hex as the subordinate units. Does this mean that there is a brigade/division HQ that simply doesn't factor into the tutorial scenario that is generating this error as it hasn't or won't arrive by the time the scenario ends? I hate to sound obtuse, but I'm certainly feeling that way .

The units in the tutorial scenario are in the main campaign with no changes. In the campaign scenario, most if not all of the units will have higher divisional and/or corp level HQs. So those two theatre HQs will suffice in the tutorial and will give the necessary guidance and assistance that your units need.

What is driving this message which is not necessarily an error is simply that the higher level HQ in the TO&E/organization is not available so the higher level HQs are taking care of things. Once those HQs come in, the divisional level HQs have a range of 24 hexes but only assist their own units only, these messages should decrease. There are independent units that are lower level than the divisions and those would be directed by the higher level HQs anyway.

Ok I think I got it. What you are saying is that the tutorial is missing some higher level HQs at the divisional/brigade level that report to the theatre HQs but command the RGT and below units, right? If that's the case, how would you know that the RGT, columns and INF units have higher HQs between the theatre commands? Obviously, in most cases RGTs wouldn't operate independantly in real life, but how in the tutorial am I supposed to know that another layer of commands will arrive? Is this simply a short-coming of the tutorial or am I missing something that shows me that these RGT/columns/INF have another layer of command?

[actrade]

It's true that many aspects aren't developed with the necessary depth.
I've been compiling notes from Joe's AARs to translate them into spanish. I already have a guide on logistics and another on unit management.

I'll be uploading them now (retranslated into English). For example, this is a short guide on logistics units, which I hope you find useful. They will likely be added in a future patch:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11FcYLm ... sp=sharing

I have reworked this document from a native English speaker and professional writer vantage as I write for a living. This is a very rough draft. Please feel free to use it or discard it. I ask for some imput in parts of the document from you as well. I would be happy to assist in the future if you want me to proof anything. I save it as a PDF since I couldn't post it as either an .odt or .doc file. If you want the file in test form, I can set up a google drive or better still just email it to you. Cheers.

[Dali101]

There are no higher headquarters there.

And since someone decided that even the division HQ is not a real HQ anymore (just a regular infantry unit full of expensive devices, but almost worthless), you will only encounter real HQs in the game very rarely.

[RangerJoe]

It's true that many aspects aren't developed with the necessary depth.
I've been compiling notes from Joe's AARs to translate them into spanish. I already have a guide on logistics and another on unit management.

I'll be uploading them now (retranslated into English). For example, this is a short guide on logistics units, which I hope you find useful. They will likely be added in a future patch:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11FcYLm ... sp=sharing

I have reworked this document from a native English speaker and professional writer vantage as I write for a living. This is a very rough draft. Please feel free to use it or discard it. I ask for some imput in parts of the document from you as well. I would be happy to assist in the future if you want me to proof anything. I save it as a PDF since I couldn't post it as either an .odt or .doc file. If you want the file in test form, I can set up a google drive or better still just email it to you. Cheers.

He took the information from my AAR. If you want explanations of what I did and why, just ask me . . .

I do understand English, I was in England for awhile. While English English is not my native language, I can get by in it. I just may not understand some of the slang . . .