Contralmirante Antonio Azarola

[Dreamslayer]

Antonio Azarola Gresillón - Contralmirante and ex-Minister of the Navy.
In the game he is available as leader on Republican side. But it looks unreal because of first days events.

Republican Navy have too many commanders with high enough Navy skill.

However, the mutiny itself split the Spanish officer corps – some of the officers nevertheless remained loyal to the Republic. Of the 19 admirals who actually served, 2 remained on the side of the legitimate government, 2 out of 31 captains of the 1st rank, 7 out of 65 captains of the 2nd rank and 13 out of 128 captains of the 3rd rank. Out of a total of 243 senior officers and admirals, only 24 people turned out to be on the government's side.
Therefore, by the autumn of 1936, the highest positions in the current republican navy were occupied by captains of the 3rd rank (capitán de corbeta) - this title was held in 1936 by both future commanders of the fleet, M. Buiza (M. Buiza y Fernández–Palacios,1898-1963) and L.G. de Ubieta (L.G. de Ubieta y González del Castillo, 1899-1950), and they had no experience commanding warships, not to mention formations of ships – M. Buisa commanded a tugboat on the eve of the mutiny, and L.G. de Ubieta commanded a hydrographic vessel. However, in the first weeks of the Civil War, the commander The fleet was led by Captain F. Navarro Capdevila, 2nd rank (1884 - after 1939), but he failed to meet expectations and was sent to London as a military attache.

(In the text are not Spanish rank but similar)

Also, I read somewhere that in Republican Navy the admiral ranks was abolish.

[Dreamslayer]

Camilo Molins Carrera - Contralmirante.
There are 2 of them (or him?) in the game. One for Republican side and other for Froncoists. But looks like that he doesn't hold any positions during the war. Executed 23 June 1939.
https://documentalismomemorialistayrepu ... a-en-1939/
Because of the most leaders are randomly assigned, there is a strange case. He is assigned to main Navy HQ, but when I open the replace leader screen, it shows him twice (1st as green and 2nd as red color). Maybe because of there are 2 in the data.
Anyway this one is wrong person too.

[Piteas]

Antonio Azarola Gresillón - Contralmirante and ex-Minister of the Navy.
In the game he is available as leader on Republican side. But it looks unreal because of first days events.

Also, I read somewhere that in Republican Navy the admiral ranks was abolish.

The whole game is historic, but after July 17th anything can happen in game. So Azarola Gresillon is in the pool (and others). The player can use it or or stay faithful to the historical course.

[Piteas]

Camilo Molins Carrera - Contralmirante.
There are 2 of them (or him?) in the game. One for Republican side and other for Froncoists. But looks like that he doesn't hold any positions during the war. Executed 23 June 1939.
https://documentalismomemorialistayrepu ... a-en-1939/
Because of the most leaders are randomly assigned, there is a strange case. He is assigned to main Navy HQ, but when I open the replace leader screen, it shows him twice (1st as green and 2nd as red color). Maybe because of there are 2 in the data.
Anyway this one is wrong person too.

I´ll check this guy. Thanks!

[Dreamslayer]

The whole game is historic, but after July 17th anything can happen in game. So Azarola Gresillon is in the pool (and others). The player can use it or or stay faithful to the historical course.

The situation at start of 1st turn doesn't show the actual situation on 17 July. It's a some kind of the simplificated version of the beginning. The start of SCW it's a complicated serias of events in various areas. It wasn't happened just in a single day. Look at the events in Ferrol (or El Ferrol ?), Madrid, Barcelona, Menorca etc. I already mention before about DD Churruca. That why the attitude to this ship is different by comparison to BB Espana and CL Almirante Cervera (they wasn't in Nationalist side on 17 July).
Such complicated things have to be simplifacated in the game, just because it's a game where players have to play. Or you need to made "historical first turn" (in the case of SCW it should be first few days). So, simplificating is OK. But some things/aspects you can't made too simple. Like this case about leaders. Antonio Azarola Gresillón was executed 4 August 1936 by Froncoists. So, he wasn't on Nationalist side and have no chances to normally join to Republicans.
WitP also has the simplification. E.g. - British Force Z.
SO, you can't just divide the units/persons/ships based on their status on 17 July. It is necessary to take into account their involvement in the future, during the entire war. Like Churruca, the ship was under Froncoist control only few days and the game hasn't the machanics about changing sides.
If leaders wasn't in command during the war when need to remove them from the data.

[RangerJoe]

The whole game is historic, but after July 17th anything can happen in game. So Azarola Gresillon is in the pool (and others). The player can use it or or stay faithful to the historical course.

The situation at start of 1st turn doesn't show the actual situation on 17 July. It's a some kind of the simplificated version of the beginning. The start of SCW it's a complicated serias of events in various areas. It wasn't happened just in a single day. Look at the events in Ferrol (or El Ferrol ?), Madrid, Barcelona, Menorca etc. I already mention before about DD Churruca. That why the attitude to this ship is different by comparison to BB Espana and CL Almirante Cervera (they wasn't in Nationalist side on 17 July).
Such complicated things have to be simplifacated in the game, just because it's a game where players have to play. Or you need to made "historical first turn" (in the case of SCW it should be first few days). So, simplificating is OK. But some things/aspects you can't made too simple. Like this case about leaders. Antonio Azarola Gresillón was executed 4 August 1936 by Froncoists. So, he wasn't on Nationalist side and have no chances to normally join to Republicans.
WitP also has the simplification. E.g. - British Force Z.
SO, you can't just divide the units/persons/ships based on their status on 17 July. It is necessary to take into account their involvement in the future, during the entire war. Like Churruca, the ship was under Froncoist control only few days and the game hasn't the machanics about changing sides.
If leaders wasn't in command during the war when need to remove them from the data.

Actually there is a mechanic to have ships change sides but it could be awkward if the ship is sunk fairly quickly. Have the ship withdraw from one side and then appear as a reinforcement for the other side. Of course, if a player knew that would happen, he would get that ship sunk first but only if that would keep the ship from showing up for the other side.

[jazzyblur]

Actually there is a mechanic to have ships change sides but it could be awkward if the ship is sunk fairly quickly. Have the ship withdraw from one side and then appear as a reinforcement for the other side. Of course, if a player knew that would happen, he would get that ship sunk first but only if that would keep the ship from showing up for the other side.

Yes, sticking with the 'anything can happen post July 17th' there would have to be a mechanic where ANY ship could switch sides if certain conditions were met during the opening few weeks. Obviously not in the scope of the game, but it would be cool to not fully trust your OOB, and it would prevent players from gaming a situation if they knew a certain ship would be switching over on a specific date.

[Piteas]

The initial days of confusion cannot be represented in the game as its system is designed. Therefore, a clear stance must be taken from the very first turn. We can't kill Azarola on August 4th, because then we would have to kill dozens of officers in the game's data... Yes, there are many others like Azarola in data who didn't survive the first few weeks.

But they have another chance in the game, because It's the player's war as much as possible, not the historical war.
It's a game, not a documentary. You can use Azarola and General Mola doesn't die in June 1937... although perhaps sooner if the Republican player captures him.

It could have been done another way, surely. But it was done this way. At this point, this aspect of the game is not going to change.

[Dreamslayer]

No need to kill Azarola on August 4th. Just remove leaders who wasn't in the command during the war. Ferrol has status not on 17 July, it looks like that it's a time when Azarola was already arrested. So, how exactly he can be used in the Republican command system? No way.
Also. Republican units (especially HQ's) should to ask a lesser rank than at this moment. Republicans have very shortage of high level leaders.
But if the idea of "anything can happen after 17 July" then need to add the very low chance events about meteorite fall and alien attacks. Why not if anything can happens.
Or let's find all the 90-year-old Spanish admirals and generals and add them to the database.
Again. You say about historically and 17 July. Then why this is stops work for BB Espana and CL Almirante Cervera which was in Ferrol and not under Nationalist control? If the logic about 17 July work then move these ship to Republican side.
Or I don't understand anything. Here it is, and there it is different.

[Q-Ball]

I don't think there is a clean way to do it; regardless, it's not going to be perfect. I personally think it's fine that Azarola is in the game and available; honestly it doesn't make a huge difference either way

I was surprised, however, that Jose Moscardo Ituarte is not the commander in Toldeo on July 17th.....seems like that should be a no-brainer bit of chrome

[RangerJoe]

Remembering again that this is a game and not a simulation, then maybe those leaders don't die in the game when they did actually die. Also, a lot of those Republican leaders are not very good and/or do not have balanced statistics. That can and probably does change when they get promoted. There was a Republican officer who previously was a school teacher who achieved a very high rank at the old age of 25 years. He was a very good military officer.

[Dreamslayer]

About Azarola in Spanish - https://www.nuevatribuna.es/articulo/cu ... 87857.html
How this person can continue his service in Republican Fleet?
If you think that it's possible then change the status of units/ships in Ferrol.
The Republican Fleet in the game has only 2 leaders who have a rank CONT (Contralmirante) - Carrera and Azarola. Both are randomly assigned to HQ's. Carrera always to the main Navy HQ, Azarola always to Navy Air HQ. There are no other options. Azarola has Air Skill 19, very nice for Air HQ.