Savannah map 5 (I think) *spoilers*

MahaROGa · Post by **MahaROGa** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:42 am

Map 5 or the one where the "master" drop's in in a heavy titan....

OK... I'm wondering what I've done wrong (or maybe "what I could do better").

My squad consists of 4 titans (2 medium, 2 light) and 4 jocks (3 regular, 1 novice)

I start into map 5, which has very little in the way of LOS blocking terrain, and I'm pitted up against 8 enemy titans (with equal skill, so probably all regular). Granted that most of the enemy titans were 70ton/lights but I think that there was 1 or 2 mediums and definately 1 heavy.

I can't imagine how I'm supposed to fight this battle. As I said above there is very little LOS blocking terrain, so it pretty much a line'em up and shoot type of battle, and I am heavily out gunned.

The one time that I played it I was getting pounded then the master shows up, get off a few vollies, gets caught in a burning hex, and ejects, leaving me to continue taking my pounding. I tried to rush to the exit (when I thought it was 1hvy/1med/6lights vs. my 2med/2lights) so I imagine that it might have helped to let the enemy come to me (that was helpful in the retake the base mission)

Thanks,

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:54 am

I just checked the map and the tonnage balance is even (including Suthira) for both sides. Can you re-check please?

MahaROGa · Post by **MahaROGa** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:14 pm

I thought I had a save of that battle, but couldn't find it last night. I'll try to start up another one to see if I can reproduce the problem. I'm not too familiar with the Titan Names or the relation between the graphics and the various chassis for each weight grade, so it is very probable that I got it wrong.

I'll update again when I got more info, thanks for looking into it.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:45 pm

Click on the hex the titan is in, it'll show you the description of the terrain. Click on one of the little arrows and it'll scroll to the previous/next page. Info on the titan(s) should appear. Tonnage is displayed there. (40 recon, 70 light, 100 medium, 140 heavy, 200 assault)

MahaROGa · Post by **MahaROGa** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:04 pm

Yea, I found that detail last night when I was looking at a save that I thought was M5, but after further review I believe that it was M4, it certainly was not M5 the terrain and exit points were all different. On that map my 2 med and 2 lights (340 tons) were paired against 2 recons and 4 lights (360 tons). I did make it through that mission, but with heavy damage.

MahaROGa · Post by **MahaROGa** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:51 am

Ok... I started Sav M5 again. My team now has 3 med and 1 light (plus the heavy for Master Suthira) which totals up to 510 tons. By my count the enemy in this match has 2 heavy, 2 med, 4 light for a total of 760 tons (technically it is 759 because one of the heavies is only 139 tons). Giving them about a 50% bonus over my total tonnage. The enemy Titans were;

Picket #1 - Light - Inferno
Picket #2 - Light - Zombie
Picket #3 - Light - Thor
Picket #4 - Med - Unknown
Picket #5 - Heavy - Ballista
Picket #6 - Light - Unknown
Picket #7 - Medium - Unknown
Picket #8 - Heavy - Rifleman

As you can see I hadn't fully identified three of them, but the info display was still telling me the size class.

I've attached a zip file with a couple of saves from this battle. The battle is just about to really get rolling (just some sniping so far), but I see a very ugly ending for me.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:04 pm

Ok, here's what I think may be happening.
I think that side B (team 2 only) is being calculated as if team 3 is the same weight as team 1, instead of the sum of teams 1 and 3. Your team 1 is 370 tons, team 3 140, and team 2 760 (which is approx 2*370).
Just a guess.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:16 pm

Yes, thats the point. Changing this calculation would lead to different problems. Will evaluate workarounds.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:56 pm

Anyways, this map was designed to be the 1st or 2nd mission of a green squad. Works well in that situation.

MahaROGa · Post by **MahaROGa** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:36 pm

So you think I should just give up on this campaign and move on to one that fits my jocks skill level (which I guess would be the 3rd campaign as it is the only one listed as "regular")?

Funny that I did read enough forum posts to pickup the hint that we should do a few random battles between each campaign battle. I didn't see any that indicated that there would be problems if I did too many random battles. In fact I seem to remember reading that it didn't really matter because the campaigns scaled to fit your team.

Actually I guess that I could just leave a couple of my titans behind so that 2*(my team tonnage) is closer to (my team tonnage)+140. Then since the enemy is getting 2*(my team size) it would be a closer battle.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:48 pm

Sorry, its a problem with this map playing it with too much team weight. Best weight to master it is <= 140t for your team. C2 (Android Rebellion) will not have such problems so I suggest you play this before tackling the final C3 (Metaborator).

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:12 pm

Was that what I said? Nope, I said that it works well for the conditions specified with the map.

Well, hints are just that, hints. Maybe some people need to play randoms between campaign maps. Did you try playing it your own way? To see if *you* could make it? The campaigns have a storyline, so all maps "should" be played in a row. It is possible.
Now, there is a small problem with 3-team maps that makes this particular map a little tough *if* you don't follow the requirements. If you do, no prob.
And yes, maps scale to your team. But it does matter - you must have read wrong. I said in the thread you're refering to that some AI jocks are set to mandatory - those have a fixed rank, the map's rank. So if you use a team with a higher rank, those will still be lower rank, but the non-mandatory will have a rank higher than yours to compensate. So that's a risk. You might end up with elite AIs fighting your vets.

If you had followed the story your squad should be rookie or green, with recons and/or lights. There'd be no problems. You went on hints, wht can I say?

I'll post some hints for the campaigns in the map room.

MahaROGa · Post by **MahaROGa** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:09 am

Thanks for the input, guys... I didn't mean to be complaining, was just trying to figure out what to do next...

I might try playing it out, as it is. I didn't do that the first time because I was in a hopeless spot. I didn't expect to get reinforced by Master Suthira, so when I saw that the enemy had a large advantage in numbers and tons I decided that the best plan was to try to run for the exit. I was about half way acros the map when Master Suthira dropped in (and died shortly there after) and so I was at point blank range with a huge disadvantage. If I had played that one out it would have just been an excersize in being a good loser.

In my current run at it, I'm holding back making them come to me (through the quicksand), by using that terrain to my advantage it should help balance things out. Additionally I expect that Master Suthira will be a lot more helpful this time than he was last time, I think he just ran into some very bad luck last time.

Thanks again!

Invinsenile_196 · Post by **Invinsenile_196** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:36 am

I would hold back on getting bigger titans for a while. It seems every time I've gotten a bigger titan the opposition just seems to grow with it rather than become weaker. Am I wrong or right about this?

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:23 pm

Hmm, that has already been explained. The AI has some fixed titans/jocks (map requirements) and the rest will scale to your squad.

MaHaROGa, yep, that's a sound tactic. I went south for the woods and waited there. Sniped while they were going for Suthira, and one of my titans dashed for the exit just in case. I fought them, but with the exit guy ready to finish the battle in case I was taking a beating.
It's all a matter of approach

MahaROGa · Post by **MahaROGa** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:06 pm

I did it! I actually beat the mission even with the odds stacked against me. The first few titans to approach my defensive line came down pretty easy. Meanwhile the enemy long range titans were bombarding my position, however many of those volleys were missing due to my titans being in the croched position. A couple more of their titans approached and fell, but by that time two of mine were in very bad shape. My leader lost a leg followed by my unguided missle titan also loosing one. But by that time they only had 3 long range titans left vs. my 2 and Suthira. So I decide it's time to close the distance. I jump the line of quicksand with my 2 titans, however their jump jet time came up 1 sec short and they both fell down instead of landing. Now their long range weapons were running out of ammo (as well as my ammoed weapons). But each of my remaining titans had a pair of pulse lasers as well as some CC weapons. One of my remaining two finally loose a leg, but they are had lost one as well. Just as my last unit decided to make a run for the exit, one of those two ejected. After some wuick checking I realise that the remaining unit (Ballista) only has 2 lrm12 and 2 lrm6 all of which are out of ammo and since he is isn't faster than my remaining medium, I'm able to run circles around him pelting him with my 2 pulse lasers. Eventually he decides to eject or risk death (had his head down to 1 point, CT was red and internals were about gone, also leg and RT/LT damage. It was a GLORIOUS battle.

The bad new was;

Salvage 179,795
Bounty 15,428
Payment 30,000
Upkeep 102,995
Balance 122,995
Squad Total = 287,884

Repair bill = 349,288

So it seems that for my next few battles I will have to leave at least one of my team at home while the others earn money to cover those repairs.

Is it possible to make the payment different based on the scale of units in the battle (total tonnage, tonnage ratio, unit ranks)? I can see that making 122,995 isn't "bad" but when my repairs are 349,288 it isn't enough.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 2:39 am

Payment in campaigns is defined by the maker of the map.
Notice your upkeep is high because your squad is bigger than what it should be. Also, repairs were high because the odds were stacked against you.

Savannah map 5 (I think) spoilers

Savannah map 5 (I think) spoilers