possible bug in SP german rockets?

Jamminji · Post by **Jamminji** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:38 am

Hi all,

I was am playing the wwii campaign and have bought some of those wielienger(?) 40 on board rocket arty. I have noticed that when I fire them at a hex directly or use them as indirect arty, sometimes, actually quite often, when the rocket hits I get more then one explosion and the second+ explosiong are far away (more then 15 hexes) from the initial landing area. (Landing right on the enemy too) Anyone seen this before?I have the Neiienwibles(?) On board arty, and 150s Off B arty also, and it does not happen when these land.

Sorry for a bad spelling on the arty... hehe

jam

btw... thanks to everyone for all the help with all my questions!!!!

Toontje · Post by **Toontje** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:44 pm

I only noticed when fireing directly, wurframen hit one of my units between the fireing and targeted unit. Multiple times I've seen this so I just avoid such situations currently.

Black Sabot · Post by **Black Sabot** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:17 pm

Maybe it has something to do with accuracy and exp. ratings.
I've had both 'z-fired' HE and and smoke rounds land in the wrong hex.
Doesn't happen often, but it get's worse with lower exp and morale.

Jamminji · Post by **Jamminji** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:54 pm

This is way farther then just inaccurate. It was half way accross the map... a good 20+ hexs away. It sounds like at least it does not happen very often! SOunds like I lucked out that it hit my opponent and not me...hehe

jam

Toontje · Post by **Toontje** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:09 am

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I've had both 'z-fired' HE and and smoke rounds land in the wrong hex.
---

Rgr been there. Mainly artillery tho.

20 hexes, if it happened more than 1ce.. I've seen unspotted katusha fire with a spread diameter of about 15, so that would be more than 2x the least accurate fire I know. Could be if spread is determined using some sort of gaussian chance for distance.

Capt. Pixel · Post by **Capt. Pixel** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:39 am

If I follow, I've also seen this 'stray' round come in well outside the usual scatter pattern.

I've seen this occur with Soviet and US also. (i.e. tubes 1,3 and 4 fire normally, but tube 2 drops a round 20+ hexes distant from the others)

It can be quite annoying when that stray round comes in over your own troops

Irinami · Post by **Irinami** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:05 am

In beach landings, I'll have my landing craft Z-fire methodically into the beach, until it's all covered by .50 shells. (I think I've created an environmental hazard due to the amount of lead I infuse those beaches with.) At the most extreme ranges, sometimes the rounds will fly one hex away from their target... even into a hex they otherwise couldn't hit (from range, LOS, etc).

So even with small arms it can (rarely) happen, to a much smaller degree.

IBTyrone · Post by **IBTyrone** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:02 pm

Hi Jamminji.

I have had the same problem with the Wurfrahmen 40. The 40 has two weapons, the 28 cm HE rocket and the 32 cm flame rocket. I find that the 32 cm flame rocket is the problem particularly when I am using direct fire. The 28 cm rocket goes exactly where I want it to go, but the flame rocket usually unerringly plops down right in the middle of my troops, regardless of where they are in regard to my target. It kills morale and kills more of my troops than the enemy sometimes not to mention the fact that my troops are suddenly left in a burning hex.

Although I haven't determined the rhyme or reason for the wayward flame rocket, I've dealt with it by disabling it by right clicking on the unit and then clicking on the flame rocket to disable it. The C option mentioned earlier works as well, but I usually prefer to disable it altogether.

Hope this helps.

Drescher · Post by **Drescher** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:50 pm

I have noticed exactly the same . Maybe this is a real problem of that weapon , as i havent seen it on any other rocketlauncher . One more thing ,i think ive noticed that this happens especially when you do not have LOS and/or have moved Wurfrahmen not long ago .

MOTHER · Post by **MOTHER** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:17 am

WWII all rockets were best used as "blanket coverage" with relitively long setup times, if accuracy was required.This is reflected in the game mechanics as all have previously noted in the above postings.
My experience i found utilizing these wepons during the bombardment ,pre turn 1 ;is definatly generates the best "bang for buck" outcomes.
Also targeting of defined features in conjunction with a Forward Observer{A MUST} /CP or AO [hilltops,crossroads,beach sector,major bridge,defined smoke plumes, etc.]seems in my opinion the best utilization of these weapons or if used with the time delay bombardment method.
The "willy meter ",exp ,morale, and movement all contribute to significant degrigdation of outcomes.ALSO THAT FLAME ROCKET, ITS THE ROUGE/JOKER AND DOES EXACERBATE THE MORE THE VARIABLES CHANGE.
I am no expert but them the rules i utilze to create satisfactory outcomes.
Direct fire-never tried it,dont intend to-81/120mm mortars for me any day.
ALL THE BEST,MOTHER

IBTyrone · Post by **IBTyrone** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:40 pm

Drescher wrote:I have noticed exactly the same . Maybe this is a real problem of that weapon , as i havent seen it on any other rocketlauncher . One more thing ,i think ive noticed that this happens especially when you do not have LOS and/or have moved Wurfrahmen not long ago .

Hey Drescher,

I haven't seen it on any other rocket launcher either, but the Wurfrahmen 40 is the only rocket launcher I am aware of in the game that loads two different types of rockets. As I mentioned earlier, I've never had a problem with the 28 cm rockets--it's the evil 32 cm flame rocket which almost invariably blows up my own troops.

IBTyrone · Post by **IBTyrone** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:44 pm

MOTHER wrote:WWII all rockets were best used as "blanket coverage" with relitively long setup times, if accuracy was required.This is reflected in the game mechanics as all have previously noted in the above postings.
My experience i found utilizing these wepons during the bombardment ,pre turn 1 ;is definatly generates the best "bang for buck" outcomes.
Also targeting of defined features in conjunction with a Forward Observer{A MUST} /CP or AO [hilltops,crossroads,beach sector,major bridge,defined smoke plumes, etc.]seems in my opinion the best utilization of these weapons or if used with the time delay bombardment method.
The "willy meter ",exp ,morale, and movement all contribute to significant degrigdation of outcomes.ALSO THAT FLAME ROCKET, ITS THE ROUGE/JOKER AND DOES EXACERBATE THE MORE THE VARIABLES CHANGE.
I am no expert but them the rules i utilze to create satisfactory outcomes.
Direct fire-never tried it,dont intend to-81/120mm mortars for me any day.
ALL THE BEST,MOTHER

Mother,

I am in agreement with you, your assessment of the flame rocket as a rogue/joker is right on. I usually use my tanks to run the enemy out of op fire and then move the Wurfrahmen 40s up last for direct fire instead of using them for bombardment. It especially sucks when you fire your three 28cm rockets (which always go where they're supposed to) and the 32 cm flame rocket is busy burning your troops to death in some other random hex. Is it somebody's idea of a cruel joke? Joke or no, I think it is a bug, but apparently not that many others have run across the problem or we would have heard more about it.

Drescher · Post by **Drescher** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:38 pm

exactly . This problem is closely linked with that special monsterrocket . As said before it might be sort of unstable construction in reality , but only developers could give a true answer at that point !

Vathailos · Post by **Vathailos** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:18 pm

I've had both those results (direct-fire and indirectly plotted) from the flame rocket, once shooting back over the hill I was on toward my rear, incinerating my 81mm mortars on one direct-fire attempt.

Despite that, I swear by them. Namely because I got a three-tank kill with that flame rocket once

. As someone pointed out above, a higher experience rating will seriously reduce the misfire instances.

Or, as also stated, you could always just turn it off. If you want to minimize the danger, I've started placing them next to my ammo trucks/dumps and near the rear. Most "problem launches" tend to go behind the launcher (IME) and I'll keep a spare SkdFz 6 back there as a magnet just in case

.

IBTyrone · Post by **IBTyrone** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:16 am

Vathailos wrote:I've had both those results (direct-fire and indirectly plotted) from the flame rocket, once shooting back over the hill I was on toward my rear, incinerating my 81mm mortars on one direct-fire attempt.

Despite that, I swear by them. Namely because I got a three-tank kill with that flame rocket once . As someone pointed out above, a higher experience rating will seriously reduce the misfire instances.

Or, as also stated, you could always just turn it off. If you want to minimize the danger, I've started placing them next to my ammo trucks/dumps and near the rear. Most "problem launches" tend to go behind the launcher (IME) and I'll keep a spare SkdFz 6 back there as a magnet just in case .

I wonder, as Drescher pointed out, if the developers of the game made the 32 cm flamerocket randomly go berserk simply because it *does* have the capability for a three-tank kill in one turn. It's almost too powerful when it works right.

That being said, your suggestion about having a spare SkDFz 6 as a magnet was hilarious as well as a good idea. heh.

Irinami · Post by **Irinami** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:13 am

If you're aiming for the 28cm's, wouldn't the 32cm fall "somewhere else"? Even with perfect flight characteristics, the ballistics for one are almost certainly different for the other.

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am

This is a very old problem that I thought was fixed when they did away with multiple onboard mortars (single mortar units that had more than 1 tube...all removed in v7.0 IIRC). That problem was exactly the same as what you're describing: one round lands in/near target hex and the next lands 8-15 hexes away...except with these mortars it was much more noticeable since they fired more rounds per turn. And I specifically remember that it occurred when using them in direct-fire mode too (with HE and smoke rounds).

Perhaps the Wurfrahmen, which is a single onboard arty unit with multiple 'tubes' (and AFAIK, is the only such unit left in the game!), is somehow 'related' to those now-extinct mortars.

IBTyrone · Post by **IBTyrone** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:39 pm

tracer wrote:This is a very old problem that I thought was fixed when they did away with multiple onboard mortars (single mortar units that had more than 1 tube...all removed in v7.0 IIRC). That problem was exactly the same as what you're describing: one round lands in/near target hex and the next lands 8-15 hexes away...except with these mortars it was much more noticeable since they fired more rounds per turn. And I specifically remember that it occurred when using them in direct-fire mode too (with HE and smoke rounds).

Perhaps the Wurfrahmen, which is a single onboard arty unit with multiple 'tubes' (and AFAIK, is the only such unit left in the game!), is somehow 'related' to those now-extinct mortars.

Makes sense. The Wurfrahmen is the only unit that I've come across with this multiple tube configuration. And as I mentioned earlier, when you disable the 32 cm flame rocket and fire only the 28 cm rockets it works fine. I haven't tried it the other way, though. I wonder how only firing the 32cm flame rocket would work. I would hate to "fix" the problem by doing away with the Wurfrahmen which is what it sounds like what happened with the multiple onboard mortars.

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:33 pm

The old problem I mentioned did not happen with every onb. mortar, so perhaps someone can 'fix' the wurfrahmen. I remember being frustrated as I watched my first round land right on target, then the next (from the '2nd tube') would land 10 rows up, sometimes off the visible map if you were zoomed in! The rest of the fire mission would be like watching a tennis match: on target, 10 rows up, on target, 10 rows up...

Note: on rare occasions this 'bug' would come in handy...provided there were enemy units in both locations!

possible bug in SP german rockets?

possible bug in SP german rockets?

I've seen this too

The evil 32 cm flame rocket

fire control-historical, pertinant to game play