Why hasn't anyone made this other kinda wargame yet?

[benpark]

Matrix should toss EYSA and Korsun Pocket into a blender.

An operational game (like KP) that "zooms" into a tactical game (something like CMBO/BB or EYSA-not RTS) is my dream. Operational combats could either be resolved by the traditional "boardgame" style, or the player could go to company+-level to resolve the battle. The CC series, as well as the Total War series both attempted this in a very basic way, but something deeper is needed for a truly great wargame.

A game that would fulfill my dreams in a computer wargame if done right-with an adherence to real world tactics and history (Eastern Front pref. fer me).

[riverbravo]

Total war is pretty good and is an excellent example how it should work .in WW2 of course.

It would have to support more than 2 players MP.

It would be great to play like 3vs3 with each player getting an army or a few divisions.

It would have to support PBEM as well as TCP/IP.

I really dont see any games with the huge campaign aspect as well as the zoom in and get dirty of a CC or CM.

You could do it but with pencil and paper and a map but whats the point?Thats what a computer is for....for calculating battle stats

Maybe one day we will see this dream game.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Hmm and they tell us old grognards it takes to long, to much effort to run a single game of Steel Panthers hehe.

And you actually want to run an operational wargame, where each battle is resolved down at the local tactical level?

You do realise how long it would take to play that wargame don't you?

Lost Victories is a very long campaign, and yet it is just a slice of the opening stages of the war in Russia.

A nice notion I suppose, but that game is not going to be doable any time soon.

People usually either want to drive a handful of tanks around, or they want to manever a handful of amoured formations around.
But I don't think many want to maneuver a unit, then resolve the effect of that maneuver tank by tank.

Well at least I wouldn't want to. Heck I am 41 heheh I don't have that many years left in this life hehe.

[NaKATPase]

I recall murmurs about something of this nature some while back on the Combat Leader message board...

Don't quote me, but I believe the goal that the matrix folks had in mind for an online "tie-in" for combat leader was a big operational level "virtual east front" as it were... obviously this was not really elaborated on, but I got the idea that the implication was a player could "log on" and then fight interesting battalion/regimental size games against other players, and have the results depicted on the large scale map.

Of course, such a system wouldn't allow the individual players the ability to micromanage both the large and small scale, but it would at least put the smaller scale into some context.

Perhaps we'll see this in the spring...

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

The day will not arrive, when I want to combine either Steel Panthers or Combat Mission with TOAW or Strategic Command.

Nope, I want one or the other.

I also expect a game that can be finished in my life time eh. And considering I am 41, I just don't have the time to play out a game that long.

Sorry dude, but unfortunately most of wargaming are equally old guys like me.

Your dream game will just have to stay a dream me thinks.

[riverbravo]

[QUOTE=Les the Sarge 9-1

Your dream game will just have to stay a dream me thinks.[/QUOTE]

dreams are what got everything started no matter what it was.

So it cant hurt.

[riverbravo]

The day will not arrive, when I want to combine either Steel Panthers or Combat Mission with TOAW or Strategic Command.

Nope, I want one or the other.

I also expect a game that can be finished in my life time eh. And considering I am 41, I just don't have the time to play out a game that long.

Sorry dude, but unfortunately most of wargaming are equally old guys like me.

Your dream game will just have to stay a dream me thinks.

Just because of youre age and what you want means it will never happen?

I dont see it anytime soon, but one day...

there is thing called technology that keeps growing and getting stronger that allows us to invent new things.

Well,you old dudes are gonna have to step off and retire to the porch were you can tell stories of the good ole days when you played ASL for days at a time.

"I remember the days when i used to roll dice to and use modifiers to calculate hits and me and my buds would play til we passd out from exhaustion and that was just turn 2,these young punks dont sheeeeeit about wargames"

WRONG

I hate to burst the bubble you live in.

There is a new generation of wargamers with a fire lit under there *** that wants wargames to be all they can be.we want to throw in everything and the kitchen sink.

Just because you are the keeper of the bored game....yes I said bored,doesnt mean that there isnt room for more advanced PC games that let you do it all.

When was the last time you played a bored game as opposed to a PC game and had a human opponent.Or when was the last time you played a solo TT game?

I rest my case.

[Blunderbuss]

Just because of youre age and what you want means it will never happen?

I hate to burst the bubble you live in.

There is a new generation of wargamers with a fire lit under there *** that wants wargames to be all they can be.we want to throw in everything and the kitchen sink.

You're right. There should be no limit to the number of different types of game. Whatever floats your boat, go for it. We'd all still be playing Pong if new gaming ideas had been stifled. Anyway, is there an upper age limit for videogamers? Is there an age where one becomes incapable of accepting new ideas? Personally, I consider this a life-long activity. So long as I can still concentrate and move my fingers, I intend to keep battling against foes in pixel (or whatever replaces that in the future) form.

Over the last few years there have been four games which I can honestly say have had me totally hooked for a long period of time:-
1) Command and Conquer (PS1)-My first real RTS
2) Phantasy Star Online (Dreamcast)-My first cooperative online game
3) Grand Theft Auto 3 (PS2)-I bought my PS2 just for this game. It was worth it.
4) Medieval:Total War

Each of the above games has moved forward my expectations of what is possible in games. Nothing matches the thrill of hacking down a fleeing enemy in Medieval. A good reason to buy a PC by itself.

[Wubbleyou]

I agree with Riverbravo, I want it all and I ain't that young...I also like your use of the Killers album cover, which probably means you aint that young either.

[Eric Young]

CC4 and CC5 where the start of just this kind of game. Everyone says they want it, but when it was offered they said it was no good.

Be careful what you wish for.

E

[benpark]

I'm not that young...(34)-I did LOTS of time around the ASL and A3R board games (amongst others).

Now, the entire Eastern Front is an extreme example. That's my own taste, not everyone's. Think of something on the scale of KP. Not every battle would have to be in 3d zoomed in level-if it were well done, the game would be as good in both levels of view (like KP's AI).

I think enough wargamers embrace games like the Combat Mission series, Medieval TW, and EYSA-yet appreciate still the style of the games that represent battalions/regiments/divisions+ as counters.

Not too radical an idea.

[riverbravo]

CC4 and CC5 where the start of just this kind of game. Everyone says they want it, but when it was offered they said it was no good.

Be careful what you wish for.

E

Yes and No.

Yes they were the start.

No as in...........I believe that CC5 is still going strong with new mods.Maybe not popular out of the gate but it has grown.

Could you try it again?More than likely you are hooked up with a publisher that could make it work.

Between freedom/matrix/SSG as a team I think it would/could work.

If you guys could hook up and do it I would think you would have a huge title on youre hands with people frothing at the mouth to get their hands on it.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Hey when you guys get that odd sounding game notion, have the same dude that made it possible send me some cute looking brunettes over eh .

Hey I am not saying some things "can't" be done.

I am merely stating you might be wishing for the moon, or asking for something that only the fringiest of fringes might want.

Hell I likely could sell at least one eskimo a freezer eh, but would it be worth the effort?

Technology advances yes, that much is true. But just because someone can assume tech will advance, doesn't automatically mean it will be of any use in all things eh.

Remember, we call some dreams pipe dreams for a reason

Neatest way a computer has been aplied to cliche wargaming in the last 5 years in my opinion, is in the creation of software like VASL eh.
A complete shunning of the whole notion of making a computer wargame in the atypical way, and of actually returning the ability to play actual board games.

Computers can do lots of things, but they don't always have to do it in the more obvious way.

[Fredflak]

If a full game like that existed, I think I would play it for a while and then stop when it starts to take too much time and gets horribly long.

I like all kind of games and i'm a young wargamer, heck i'm only 23. I love board wargames too, still want to collect them, I love the strategy involved in planning an advance on a front, of trying to cut off supply and breaking through a weak point. And thats why I love playing boardgames with poeple, because of the competition, of trying to outwit and beat someone, the whole competition is what makes it great.

But finding players can be a pain in the ***, these games arent the well known family boardgames. Its fun to grab a beer with friends while trying to break through the east front. The whole social activity is a part of the fun, beer, good music, arguing and taunting friends.

The times I turn to computer wargames is when I cant get that. And well, it's unfortunatly a lot of the time. I just got Korsun Pocket and will have to try that soon. But often, i'm just dissapointed when playing against an AI because of the lack of interaction. I still play my computer version of Third Reich a lot tho, even if the AI sometimes does stupid things, but it eventually balances thanks to my own stupid mistakes.

Anyway, a huge wargame like that would probably have me stop playing before the end if its too long.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

I once had a game "D-Day the Beginning of the End".

Old software now, but cool then. It was a game of the retaking of Europe of course. The game looked like any theatre operational game, but you had the choice to either click resolve for a battle, or you could fight each and every battle out as a Micro Miniatures battle.

Yep what you have asked for HAS been done now that I think of it.

Guess what, I had the game, and nope, I didn't want to fight out every last battle counter vs counter.
I mean, if I had, who knows, I might even be about to finish the last battle in a couple of years (assuming the software still operated on the computer).

[riverbravo]

Who said anything about being forced to play an entire war?

With the system we have been talking about you could play as big or small as you want.

Options Les,options is what it is about.