This isn't a poll in the traditional sense. I'm interested in a detailed descrisption of everyones method of repairing ships.
What is everyone's stance on damaged ships?
How many of you send ANY ship in the pink, orange, or red immediately back to Pearl or Tokyo? What are the benefits of doing this do you think? What are the detractors?
How many of you have certain criteria for sending a vessel off board? What is that criteria?
Who is afraid of sending a vessel away for fear of never seeing it again?
Who prefers to fix their cripples in theater at one of your large ports?
Are there ceratain vessels you always send back? Certain vessels you NEVER send back? Why?
I think you get the idea. Personally, anything less than 40 SYS I prefer to keep in theater. Especailly CV, CVL, CVE, BB, & CA. Right now I like to have several Large Ports built up which only fix broken ships. They are usually away from the action. I tend to use one port for one type of ship, i.e. CVs at Truk, CA's at Kavieng etc. I'm interested in everyone's opinion. Perhaps I can learn something here. I'd also appreciate any specific examples of when something really worked, or really didn't.
v/r
Elf
Poll: What do you do with Damaged Ships
Moderators: Joel Billings, Tankerace, siRkid
Poll: What do you do with Damaged Ships
IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES
A lot depends on the side played, when in the game you are, the type of ship, whether AA upgrades have been received, etc. In general, I use speed as the criteria for all ships except CV/CVL. For the Japanese I keep virtually all ships that aren't useless because I find you can never get them back before the Allied weaponry becomes unbeatable (after which they are just cannon fodder). For the allies, once AA upgrades are received, any ship that can keep up with a task force is used if in need. Slower ships can be used for ASW, bombardment or convoy duty. If I have breathing room, I return to port at Sys greater than 15, repair in-theatre from 10-20 and send to PH at greater than 20.
CV/CVLs are a special case because speed isn't the critical factor. I only use CV/CVLs in CV vs CV situations if Sys is less than 10. Any higher and you risk trapping planes on the CV with any successfull bomb or torpedo hit. Losing a CV isn't too bad as the Allies, but losing the 4 inherent squadrons as well is just too high a risk. I mostly try to repair CV/CVL between 10 and 25 in-theatre, but will use them in "safe" operations such as ASW, covering invasions, protecting supply convoys as necessary. I often group damaged CVs with CVEs in this respect.
CV/CVLs are a special case because speed isn't the critical factor. I only use CV/CVLs in CV vs CV situations if Sys is less than 10. Any higher and you risk trapping planes on the CV with any successfull bomb or torpedo hit. Losing a CV isn't too bad as the Allies, but losing the 4 inherent squadrons as well is just too high a risk. I mostly try to repair CV/CVL between 10 and 25 in-theatre, but will use them in "safe" operations such as ASW, covering invasions, protecting supply convoys as necessary. I often group damaged CVs with CVEs in this respect.
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Hoplosternum
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I don't like to use ships that are in the pink (over 10 SYS damage). If they get over 10 they usually get put in a port.
I used to try and keep damaged ships in theatre but now I send more and more back. Even as the Japanese. Usually if it's over 20 it goes back. As the allies often if it is over 10. Actually I try and sneak some back just for the AA upgrades
As the US there is usually a lot of ships at Pearl and I would rather have undamaged vessels than damaged ones. I won't use a damaged CV except in a dire emergency so I'll send those back (but keep the air groups) even if I'll just get some CAs in return. Of course as the allies you usually get nice AA/radar upgrades and you are likely to get the ships back.
But as the Japanese you often don't see the ship again. However I have been persuaded (by Mogami's posts) to send a lot of damaged and unused ships back to Tokyo. Even in '43 you can get some new ships this way and as the Japanese you tend to have plenty of BBs and CAs sitting in Tokyo. Why then keep a BB with 30 SYS damage at Truk? You may not get a Battleship in return but you may get something. I'd far rather have a couple of CAs I can use than a BB I can't.
The exceptions are Submarines. I never send these back and always put them in a port to repair. As the Japanese I am also very reluctant to send back a CV, but that is mostly due to a lack of Air Support. With the US I can dump my CVs planes in bases and use them while my CV is away. The Japanese struggle to support the LBA they have never mind adding a load of planes off CVs. Still if one was over 40 SYS she would probably go. She would take months to repair and I may as well try and get something useable instead.
I used to try and keep damaged ships in theatre but now I send more and more back. Even as the Japanese. Usually if it's over 20 it goes back. As the allies often if it is over 10. Actually I try and sneak some back just for the AA upgrades
As the US there is usually a lot of ships at Pearl and I would rather have undamaged vessels than damaged ones. I won't use a damaged CV except in a dire emergency so I'll send those back (but keep the air groups) even if I'll just get some CAs in return. Of course as the allies you usually get nice AA/radar upgrades and you are likely to get the ships back.
But as the Japanese you often don't see the ship again. However I have been persuaded (by Mogami's posts) to send a lot of damaged and unused ships back to Tokyo. Even in '43 you can get some new ships this way and as the Japanese you tend to have plenty of BBs and CAs sitting in Tokyo. Why then keep a BB with 30 SYS damage at Truk? You may not get a Battleship in return but you may get something. I'd far rather have a couple of CAs I can use than a BB I can't.
The exceptions are Submarines. I never send these back and always put them in a port to repair. As the Japanese I am also very reluctant to send back a CV, but that is mostly due to a lack of Air Support. With the US I can dump my CVs planes in bases and use them while my CV is away. The Japanese struggle to support the LBA they have never mind adding a load of planes off CVs. Still if one was over 40 SYS she would probably go. She would take months to repair and I may as well try and get something useable instead.
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CapAndGown
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- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:00 am
- Location: Virginia, USA
Months?!?! From my experience, anything over 20 and it will NEVER repair! I will unconditionally send any capital ship back if it hits 25 sys damage. Even this is high. I would go for 20 now.Hoplosternum wrote: The Japanese struggle to support the LBA they have never mind adding a load of planes off CVs. Still if one was over 40 SYS she would probably go. She would take months to repair and I may as well try and get something useable instead.
Smaller ships, however, repair much more quickly. DD's, for instance, can repair 1 point in sys damage every 3 days in a level 9 port. CA's repair somewhat slower, but still faster than BB's and CV's. Therefore, as the Japs in 1943, you may wish to keep these ships in theater to repair if they have a sys damage of 30 or less.
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Hoplosternum
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Cap & Gown,
As the Japanese I have certainly repaired BBs from the 30s down to 'useable' (less than 10 SYS) in a few months at Truk and Rabaul. Also got CVs back in the game from the high 20s.
But that was then
If I play the Japanese again and am in a simillar situation I would send at least the BBs back and maybe the CVs too. The more I play the less I want to keep hold of these 'valuable' assets in theatre and simply want as many useable ones as possible in play.
As the Japanese I have certainly repaired BBs from the 30s down to 'useable' (less than 10 SYS) in a few months at Truk and Rabaul. Also got CVs back in the game from the high 20s.
But that was then
If I play the Japanese again and am in a simillar situation I would send at least the BBs back and maybe the CVs too. The more I play the less I want to keep hold of these 'valuable' assets in theatre and simply want as many useable ones as possible in play.
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Admiral DadMan
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AmiralLaurent
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It depends on wich side and time.
But after reading this forum for a while and testing what Mogami said (don't keep a ship you have no immediate need), I surely fully agree with him.
As a rule, I sent any ship that has more than 15 SYS to the home country. Any ship with SYS 5 will be docked if there is no crisis. And ships docked are released when they reach 0 damage if no crisis occurs.
On the other hand I have allready use in May 1942 Yorktown with 30 SYS south of Gili Gili after a CV battle where all three IJN CV were hit or sunk and they were retreating, leaving some AP without cover
But I also send many ships that are under this level or even undamaged. The idea is to maintain the probability of naval release to moderate as least, so any interesting ship may be released.
If a have a CV or BB in home base (Tokyo or Pearl) but not enough cruisers and DD to form a TF so it comes in theater, I sent back enough if there is no hot action. I especially do it at the USN in summer 1942.
With the same principle, using 6 Japanese BB in 1942 really drains fuel a lot and some are too slow to follow CV. So the slowest are sent to Tokyo as soon as they arrive. It has a side rsult that everytime that they come back they bring cruisers and DD with them, that I don't send back.
In the summer months of 1942, the Allied player has lots of AO, AP and AK and no need for them, as he is certainly not able to launch an offesnive operation. So I sent back from 30 to 50 % to them back.
Same case for the Japanese side in 1942 after losing a good part of my CV but only a few AP. I had over hundred AP and don't need so much to supply my southern bases. So I sent back all with more than 5 SYS (30-40 ships). They now come back by small groups and every time a group is coming I sent the same number back, taking the most damaged of my ships. Right now most is my AP fleet has 0, 1 or 2 SYS only.
I also sent my oldest DD (Minekaze class and so on) and CL (Tatsuta) and got in exchange other DD, some with radars.
It's an exchange programm seen as a whole. It's not because I send back some AP that I have other or because I sent back a Minekaze DD that I receive a Yugumo. But I send back 1 damaged CV, 2 old BB, 2 CL, 1 CVE, 10 DD, 40 AP, some PC and receive in exchange 2 BB (Musashi and one old), 2 CA, 4 CL, 12-15DD and 20 DD.
There is one exception for submarines. I try to keep and repair them in theater up to 40 SYS. Or I just keep them and use them to lay defensive minefields in friednly waters (in all New Caledonia bases, for example). I also use them to chase cripples and they are able to sink them.
But after reading this forum for a while and testing what Mogami said (don't keep a ship you have no immediate need), I surely fully agree with him.
As a rule, I sent any ship that has more than 15 SYS to the home country. Any ship with SYS 5 will be docked if there is no crisis. And ships docked are released when they reach 0 damage if no crisis occurs.
On the other hand I have allready use in May 1942 Yorktown with 30 SYS south of Gili Gili after a CV battle where all three IJN CV were hit or sunk and they were retreating, leaving some AP without cover
But I also send many ships that are under this level or even undamaged. The idea is to maintain the probability of naval release to moderate as least, so any interesting ship may be released.
If a have a CV or BB in home base (Tokyo or Pearl) but not enough cruisers and DD to form a TF so it comes in theater, I sent back enough if there is no hot action. I especially do it at the USN in summer 1942.
With the same principle, using 6 Japanese BB in 1942 really drains fuel a lot and some are too slow to follow CV. So the slowest are sent to Tokyo as soon as they arrive. It has a side rsult that everytime that they come back they bring cruisers and DD with them, that I don't send back.
In the summer months of 1942, the Allied player has lots of AO, AP and AK and no need for them, as he is certainly not able to launch an offesnive operation. So I sent back from 30 to 50 % to them back.
Same case for the Japanese side in 1942 after losing a good part of my CV but only a few AP. I had over hundred AP and don't need so much to supply my southern bases. So I sent back all with more than 5 SYS (30-40 ships). They now come back by small groups and every time a group is coming I sent the same number back, taking the most damaged of my ships. Right now most is my AP fleet has 0, 1 or 2 SYS only.
I also sent my oldest DD (Minekaze class and so on) and CL (Tatsuta) and got in exchange other DD, some with radars.
It's an exchange programm seen as a whole. It's not because I send back some AP that I have other or because I sent back a Minekaze DD that I receive a Yugumo. But I send back 1 damaged CV, 2 old BB, 2 CL, 1 CVE, 10 DD, 40 AP, some PC and receive in exchange 2 BB (Musashi and one old), 2 CA, 4 CL, 12-15DD and 20 DD.
There is one exception for submarines. I try to keep and repair them in theater up to 40 SYS. Or I just keep them and use them to lay defensive minefields in friednly waters (in all New Caledonia bases, for example). I also use them to chase cripples and they are able to sink them.
Hard to make a defined criteria, as I believe that the situation should affect the decisions.
As the Allies early, it is beneficial to send shipsback for upgrades, but ensuring that there is adequate forces available is important as well.
I like to use ships with between 12 and 19 damage as a local reserve, sending back as Japan/Pearl make ships available. They can be used in a pinch, and can also provide some firepower in the case things go south or get tight. And while sitting in port, they will shed damage. Of course, this does not work too well for BBs and CVs, but they are not plentiful either. Once again, only send them back if a replacement is available or they are 21+ damage.
A 15 sys damage CA at Noumea is better than a 0 sys damage CA 15 days out when the IJN come knocking on the door.
I try to keep my operating force in the green, and use amber sparingly, although DDs will recover damage much faster than capital ships, so I will use amber DDs more often.
As the Allies early, it is beneficial to send shipsback for upgrades, but ensuring that there is adequate forces available is important as well.
I like to use ships with between 12 and 19 damage as a local reserve, sending back as Japan/Pearl make ships available. They can be used in a pinch, and can also provide some firepower in the case things go south or get tight. And while sitting in port, they will shed damage. Of course, this does not work too well for BBs and CVs, but they are not plentiful either. Once again, only send them back if a replacement is available or they are 21+ damage.
A 15 sys damage CA at Noumea is better than a 0 sys damage CA 15 days out when the IJN come knocking on the door.
I try to keep my operating force in the green, and use amber sparingly, although DDs will recover damage much faster than capital ships, so I will use amber DDs more often.
"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC
Generally as the Allies I will send any ship back that is damaged unless the enemy threatens nearby and I need the ship for defense, this includes sending undamaged ships back just for upgrades, but it is a different story as the Japanese. Indeed, after Jan.1943 (perhaps earlier) your replacment level will fall to low and you will never get any ships unless you can send some hi-point shipos back and you still chance not getting them later. So I have decided to keep my damged ships in size 9 ports) except for 60 sys and above) for they will repair themselves albiet slowly. Even the Mutsu I repaired from 50 to 19 sys in a few months, Shokaku sys damage 70's to the 30's. I try to develop Shortlands. Rabaul and Kavieng as size nine and do not group the ships to be repaired in one port but spread them out. they repair faster that way.DJAndrews wrote:A lot depends on the side played, when in the game you are, the type of ship, whether AA upgrades have been received, etc. In general, I use speed as the criteria for all ships except CV/CVL. For the Japanese I keep virtually all ships that aren't useless because I find you can never get them back before the Allied weaponry becomes unbeatable (after which they are just cannon fodder). For the allies, once AA upgrades are received, any ship that can keep up with a task force is used if in need. Slower ships can be used for ASW, bombardment or convoy duty. If I have breathing room, I return to port at Sys greater than 15, repair in-theatre from 10-20 and send to PH at greater than 20.
CV/CVLs are a special case because speed isn't the critical factor. I only use CV/CVLs in CV vs CV situations if Sys is less than 10. Any higher and you risk trapping planes on the CV with any successfull bomb or torpedo hit. Losing a CV isn't too bad as the Allies, but losing the 4 inherent squadrons as well is just too high a risk. I mostly try to repair CV/CVL between 10 and 25 in-theatre, but will use them in "safe" operations such as ASW, covering invasions, protecting supply convoys as necessary. I often group damaged CVs with CVEs in this respect.
Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"
Ships
Hi, I send ships back when they get 10 or more system damage. I consider all ships to be on loan. As Japan I work my transports hard early to build up stockpiles South of Truk. Then I begin sending the 3k AP back to Japan. They eat points and are too large to keep hanging around as the allied air presence grows. If I get to the point where my offensive has stalled I send most of the AP home. (As allies the reverse is true. I keep very few AP/AK to begin with. I depend on fast transport early. This works well since the DD/CL all need to return to PH for AA so I run them up to 9-10 system damage and then send them back. I make my plans based on what I have on hand (plus what I can see enroute) I only count on a ship for that one operation. When it is over I send all the damaged ships home and after 2-3 weeks begin planning the next operation. In the early going as Japan sending ships home does not hurt (I'm not going to use damaged ships under any condition) If I'm going for auto victory I just make sure my transports are safe and then begin sending all the damaged ships home. (There are battles before transports begin to move) If the allies are out of ships I don't require very many my self. Of course as the allies I have a hard time running out of ships after Aug-Sept 42. Some where around the first of the year I begin hunting down the Japanese. I have streams of damaged ships heading back to Noumea with fresh arrivals moving to the forward bases. I don't believe in sitting on healthy ships I'm never going to use so I send the Allied 3k AP home as well. (to many VP) I'd rather run 2 small convoys then 1 large one. (You never know when Yamato or Mutsu will wander in for a vist).
When it gets really late in the Campaign and I am Japan I send everything back to Japan keeping only surface ships with 30+ knot speed and CV. I like to move fuel and supply to that little northern most island hex. Then sneak ships there and refuel them. If I get lucky I can get a TF undetected down around Santa Cruz way. Every once in a while you catch USN CV in port.
But basicly I send ships back. If I get another one I use it and then send it back. I work with what I have and don't try to win the whole war by working a few ships to death.
When it gets really late in the Campaign and I am Japan I send everything back to Japan keeping only surface ships with 30+ knot speed and CV. I like to move fuel and supply to that little northern most island hex. Then sneak ships there and refuel them. If I get lucky I can get a TF undetected down around Santa Cruz way. Every once in a while you catch USN CV in port.
But basicly I send ships back. If I get another one I use it and then send it back. I work with what I have and don't try to win the whole war by working a few ships to death.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
I put any ship with rire or flotation damage into the nearest port if possible (I rarelly scuttle and try to save the ship even if it's only to send it to Pearl or Yokosuka later).
As to system damage, if times are relatively quiet or I have a large reserve, I will put any ship with less then 20% damage into port for short or long time repair. Any ship with more damage will be sent home unless I am very short on the type, and I know or believe the opposing side to still have use of theirs (carriers for instance). Ships with low system damage can be repaired at front line ports (for the Japs usually Shortland, allies Cairns or Lungaville etc.) and be back in service quickly (I usually put entire TF's up for short time repair and can put them back in service on a day's notice). Ships between 10 and 20% damage usually are sent back to Truk, Rabaul for the Japs or Numea and Brisbane for the Allies (I try to build up those ports to 9 even if their natural limit is lower). These then form my stop gap reserve which can be put back into action within a couple of days if needed (they usually can form a small TFs that can make safe passage to a front line port). The only ships I ever consider really out of action are ones with one or more weapon systems disabled, I would only take those out of port if I had to evacuate, never to take place in a combat TF.
To me a ship with less then 20% system damage and all weapon systems functional will always be considered at least partially operational and too valuable an asset to send back or put into dry dock locally (as in leave it lying in port without potential escorts or partners). About the only time I could imagine sending such a ship back would be during a lull in combat where I neither predict an enemy offensive, not plan one of my own and even then a similar (that is in the role I would use the ship for) ship would have to be either waiting in Pearl or Yokosuka, or one would be expected to arrive there soon.
Marc aka Caran...
P.S.: Some ships seem to be almost always damaged yet can work well in their TF. HMASs Australia and Canberra usually fit that category, their only weakness at such points is relatively low flank speed of 27-28 knots (and of course their general weakness in AA weapons, but then they don't belong into carrier TFs or any other TF expecting massive air attack).
As to system damage, if times are relatively quiet or I have a large reserve, I will put any ship with less then 20% damage into port for short or long time repair. Any ship with more damage will be sent home unless I am very short on the type, and I know or believe the opposing side to still have use of theirs (carriers for instance). Ships with low system damage can be repaired at front line ports (for the Japs usually Shortland, allies Cairns or Lungaville etc.) and be back in service quickly (I usually put entire TF's up for short time repair and can put them back in service on a day's notice). Ships between 10 and 20% damage usually are sent back to Truk, Rabaul for the Japs or Numea and Brisbane for the Allies (I try to build up those ports to 9 even if their natural limit is lower). These then form my stop gap reserve which can be put back into action within a couple of days if needed (they usually can form a small TFs that can make safe passage to a front line port). The only ships I ever consider really out of action are ones with one or more weapon systems disabled, I would only take those out of port if I had to evacuate, never to take place in a combat TF.
To me a ship with less then 20% system damage and all weapon systems functional will always be considered at least partially operational and too valuable an asset to send back or put into dry dock locally (as in leave it lying in port without potential escorts or partners). About the only time I could imagine sending such a ship back would be during a lull in combat where I neither predict an enemy offensive, not plan one of my own and even then a similar (that is in the role I would use the ship for) ship would have to be either waiting in Pearl or Yokosuka, or one would be expected to arrive there soon.
Marc aka Caran...
P.S.: Some ships seem to be almost always damaged yet can work well in their TF. HMASs Australia and Canberra usually fit that category, their only weakness at such points is relatively low flank speed of 27-28 knots (and of course their general weakness in AA weapons, but then they don't belong into carrier TFs or any other TF expecting massive air attack).
Marc aka Caran... ministerialis