Best russian/german infantry ?
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Best russian/german infantry ?
I'm wondering what is the best russian infantry (vs soft target) and best overall german infantry (most dangerous vs tanks and vs soft target)? Also are infantry more vulnerable then I'm riding them on the tanks ? What infantry have best spotter value or it's all the same ?
Best Soviet infantry? Good question. Depends on what you're looking for. Kossacks are one of my favorites. Their Paratroops and Guards are elite foot troops as well. When you say "best" that's kind of subjective. In defense, any engineers with flame throwers and the ability to lay mines are a serious plus. I'd suggest looking at your mission, what you need the troops to do, then picking a group with the best combination of experience/weaponry/movement to foot the bill. Soviet Ski troops are the best ski troops IMO because they've got 4 weapons (rifle, LMG, Grenade and SMG). If you're playing on a winter map, they're about the best you can get with one exception, ski troops can't assault. IMO their Paras and Guards are better than their Marines. For whatever reason, it seems as though the Paras and their Tokarov (sp?) rifles hit better than the rest at distances.
With German infantry, if you want serious shock troops vs. other infantry, SS Grenadiers pack a punch. Again, 4 weapons carried, 3 fire at ranges greater than 1. SS Infantry with PanzerFausts are great vs. AFVs, but typically carry few rounds of AT shots. Again, what mission do you want them to perform? Then look at factors like visibility, movement, and weaponry. All "elite" units (German SS, Soviet Guards, US Rangers, and a whole host of others) have an experience/rally bonus. What does that mean? Better chances to hit, spot and rally.
As for spotting. IIRC, two-man scout teams are about the best in the game for recon spotting, followed closely by snipers, then 4-man scout teams, then IMO non-SP AA guns, then FOs, then mechanized scout units are close in spotting ability IMO to full infantry squads (some like Cavalry receive a recon bonus too, making them better than say a Rifle squad). I honestly haven't payed enough attention to how their spotting is degraded when riding on vehicles. I actually think putting a 4-man recon squad on an AFV actually improves the spotting ability of the AFV when they're loaded.
There are plusses and minuses with regard to loading infantry on AFVs. They're a must if you're advancing MBTs in low-vis situation. They keep (in most instances) the MBTs from being ambushed by the enemy's hidden infantry as your units move forward. When you butt into an enemy squad, one of 4 things happen. They fail to assault/attack period (and may become suppressed in the process), they force the mounted infantry to dismount and attack them instead of the AFV, or if the attackers seriously outmatch the riders ("ready" elite troops ambushing a suppressed scout team riding an AFV for example) their initial attack can either instantly suppress or destroy the riders and then the attackers will then still assault the AFV (with a degraded chance to successfully assault however). To provide some examples, a scout team riding a KV-2 will enable the KV-2 to spot much better than if it was driving forward alone, as well as give it some protection against an assault by enemy infantry.
Don't forget about the minus however. Namely, any infantry on an AFV that is hit by enemy fire will automatically be dismounted with a suppression level of 99. For example, you've got a squad of 12 Soviet Guards riding your OT-85, and it is OP-fired by a PaK 50 that hits the tank, your Guards will be "knocked off" in that hex and have a 99 suppression. However, if troops are riding "in" a vehicle as opposed to "on" it, a different set of rules apply. For example, if you had an SS Grenadier squad in a Halftrack, and the HT received OP-fire from a .50 cal for example that hit but did not damage the HT, then the troops inside would not be suppressed nor forced to dismount. If however that .50 cal scored a hit (suspension damage, hull damage, turret damage, whatever) then the infantry would be forced out, again suppressed at 99 IIRC.
Hope that helps a little. And that some more experienced players will add some clarification/more detail in a follow-up.
Good gaming!
~Vath
EDIT:
I'd like to add that if you're looking to save time/space buying Soviet units, under the "Infantry" tab when shopping you'll find Tankodesantniki (under Tank Desant PLT/CO). They're elite-class tank riders. They do good damage up close (range 1) with their SMGs, Molitov, and Grenades, but they only have one attack at ranges 2-5 (hexes) and no attack outside that. If you're looking for a meat shield, they're your boys, but I prefer to load Guards on OT-34/85s for a real "up close" punch.
Just a bit of additional information for you though, thought I'd throw it in now that I remembered them.
With German infantry, if you want serious shock troops vs. other infantry, SS Grenadiers pack a punch. Again, 4 weapons carried, 3 fire at ranges greater than 1. SS Infantry with PanzerFausts are great vs. AFVs, but typically carry few rounds of AT shots. Again, what mission do you want them to perform? Then look at factors like visibility, movement, and weaponry. All "elite" units (German SS, Soviet Guards, US Rangers, and a whole host of others) have an experience/rally bonus. What does that mean? Better chances to hit, spot and rally.
As for spotting. IIRC, two-man scout teams are about the best in the game for recon spotting, followed closely by snipers, then 4-man scout teams, then IMO non-SP AA guns, then FOs, then mechanized scout units are close in spotting ability IMO to full infantry squads (some like Cavalry receive a recon bonus too, making them better than say a Rifle squad). I honestly haven't payed enough attention to how their spotting is degraded when riding on vehicles. I actually think putting a 4-man recon squad on an AFV actually improves the spotting ability of the AFV when they're loaded.
There are plusses and minuses with regard to loading infantry on AFVs. They're a must if you're advancing MBTs in low-vis situation. They keep (in most instances) the MBTs from being ambushed by the enemy's hidden infantry as your units move forward. When you butt into an enemy squad, one of 4 things happen. They fail to assault/attack period (and may become suppressed in the process), they force the mounted infantry to dismount and attack them instead of the AFV, or if the attackers seriously outmatch the riders ("ready" elite troops ambushing a suppressed scout team riding an AFV for example) their initial attack can either instantly suppress or destroy the riders and then the attackers will then still assault the AFV (with a degraded chance to successfully assault however). To provide some examples, a scout team riding a KV-2 will enable the KV-2 to spot much better than if it was driving forward alone, as well as give it some protection against an assault by enemy infantry.
Don't forget about the minus however. Namely, any infantry on an AFV that is hit by enemy fire will automatically be dismounted with a suppression level of 99. For example, you've got a squad of 12 Soviet Guards riding your OT-85, and it is OP-fired by a PaK 50 that hits the tank, your Guards will be "knocked off" in that hex and have a 99 suppression. However, if troops are riding "in" a vehicle as opposed to "on" it, a different set of rules apply. For example, if you had an SS Grenadier squad in a Halftrack, and the HT received OP-fire from a .50 cal for example that hit but did not damage the HT, then the troops inside would not be suppressed nor forced to dismount. If however that .50 cal scored a hit (suspension damage, hull damage, turret damage, whatever) then the infantry would be forced out, again suppressed at 99 IIRC.
Hope that helps a little. And that some more experienced players will add some clarification/more detail in a follow-up.
Good gaming!
~Vath
EDIT:
I'd like to add that if you're looking to save time/space buying Soviet units, under the "Infantry" tab when shopping you'll find Tankodesantniki (under Tank Desant PLT/CO). They're elite-class tank riders. They do good damage up close (range 1) with their SMGs, Molitov, and Grenades, but they only have one attack at ranges 2-5 (hexes) and no attack outside that. If you're looking for a meat shield, they're your boys, but I prefer to load Guards on OT-34/85s for a real "up close" punch.
Just a bit of additional information for you though, thought I'd throw it in now that I remembered them.
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Kanonenfutter
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Snipers are the best recon troops. It's a good idea to put their range to 0 because
enemy troops can spot them due to his shoots. Don't move them if the enemy is close. They should only used to spot the enemy not for offensive actions.
Guards are the best Soviet foot troops I think. At close range they are strong enough to resist a SS squad. I dont use engineers because they always suffer high losses especialy against other foot troops.
enemy troops can spot them due to his shoots. Don't move them if the enemy is close. They should only used to spot the enemy not for offensive actions.
Guards are the best Soviet foot troops I think. At close range they are strong enough to resist a SS squad. I dont use engineers because they always suffer high losses especialy against other foot troops.
Artillery is the god of war.
J.Stalin
J.Stalin
In H2H.fr, those "MG42 (Laf) Trps" are AWESOME against soft targets. They cost about 50 pts, but if you expect to be fighting against a bunch of infantry, they can decimate a platoon in no time. Ask Jim1954 what he thinks about facing them in an airborne action. 
Their range is 30, they are deadly accurate and can move and shoot. Plus it's a 9 man squad so they last quite a bit.
Their range is 30, they are deadly accurate and can move and shoot. Plus it's a 9 man squad so they last quite a bit.
Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom
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Fallschirmjager
- Posts: 3555
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:46 am
- Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Soviet cavalry R-O-C-K-S 
I can now tell why these guys kept lots of cav divisions all through the war. It's the strongest recon available and can also do the work of infantry on HTs at a much cheaper price.
I can now tell why these guys kept lots of cav divisions all through the war. It's the strongest recon available and can also do the work of infantry on HTs at a much cheaper price."Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak" - John Adams
If you get enough cavalry in the area, they actually do pretty good against all kinds of tanks.
But you need a lot of them since a tank can force about 3 cavalry units to retreat per turn. Then they rally very quickly for another go and just keep going around in a circuit like that. But each time around, they can supress or destroy about one tank for every 3 squads with very few losses themselves.
But you need a lot of them since a tank can force about 3 cavalry units to retreat per turn. Then they rally very quickly for another go and just keep going around in a circuit like that. But each time around, they can supress or destroy about one tank for every 3 squads with very few losses themselves.
"Good military intelligence is worth at least as much as an extra regiment."
It was in a forest and the opponent was gracious enough to smoke the edges of it for me just before I got there. 
It seems that the horses are a bit skittish when they first see one of these iron monsters spitting MG's at them but they're easy to rally so they keep on coming back. Molotovs and grenades don't have a very good chance of penetrating but good enough that about one out of every three units trying seem to be able to at least immobilize and possibly destroy a tank. Meanwhile, the rifle fire from horseback keeps the tanks buttoned and pretty much useless.
It seems that the horses are a bit skittish when they first see one of these iron monsters spitting MG's at them but they're easy to rally so they keep on coming back. Molotovs and grenades don't have a very good chance of penetrating but good enough that about one out of every three units trying seem to be able to at least immobilize and possibly destroy a tank. Meanwhile, the rifle fire from horseback keeps the tanks buttoned and pretty much useless.
"Good military intelligence is worth at least as much as an extra regiment."
Lol good onearethusa wrote:It was in a forest and the opponent was gracious enough to smoke the edges of it for me just before I got there.
You don't wanna keep regular infantry around your cav, they will get left behind. Ammo is usually not a concern.
Here's a useful trick: keep your 0 unit in each platoon a bit back. When some subordinate gets into trouble bring the platoon leader within 3 hexes before trying to rally them. This effectively doubles your chances of rallying.
German cav is very good, it's so experienced it will often walk into the enemy without beeing seen. (They'll never know what hit'em
). It's good to also have around some SU85s (or Pumas, if you're German) to knock off the occasional stubborn tank. The SU122 can work miracles for the Soviets. Guess why
"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak" - John Adams