Should this scenario be posted?

[M4Jess]

_________SS Death Camp*
*
________American Assault*
______________vs*
_____ _German SS Defend*
______Hypothetical Scenario*
Somewhere in Germany, May 1945*
__________Turns:40*
*
______Design: Jess "M4" Housley**

Warning! Some players may find this scenario distasteful or politically incorrect, If the subject matter offends you in any way please do not download or play this scenario.**

Somewhere in western Germany, May 1945, A Combat air-patrol is hunting a reported Nazi supply train headed east.**

After the train is destroyed, the American pilots fly over, what seems to be a large military post.**

C47 Recon aircraft report that the military post is, in reality a large SS death camp.**

Meanwhile at the death camp, The SS have their own orders. If the Americans approach the camp, Kill all the remaining prisoner's and hold the camp to the last.**

This Scenario is roughly based on the book "The Rock of Anzio" by Flint Whitlock, The book covers the U.S. 45th Infantry Division through out the war. Chapter 13 "The Eternal Dark" covers the Liberation of KL Dachau. While there was no large combat action, there was exchange of fire between the SS and American units.**

[Irinami]

Um, what's the problem? That you'll be posting a scenario which shows something the SS did on documented occasions? I could almost see that the player could play the SS and kill "Jews," but:

"SS fires at dasJuden with Kar98k (33%)"
"1 (5) casualties"

... doesn't really look all that rewading to the budding sociopath. No blood. Kinda' like the ending of the old Balance of Power game if you lose.

[Silencer]

Go ahead Jess, I doubt you could upset any of us apart from those who have chosen to believe that such an event never occured. Those of us who had family in such camps who either survived through extreme good (bad in some cases considering the pain they'd suffered through abuse and disease) luck, or died I don't think have any problems with such a scenario (I speak for my own family on this one, I cannot speak for others though naturally).

Though Irinami, that suggestion was rather perverse and uncalled for. And a heads up, not just Jews were stuffed into such death camps. There are reported cases of even German Army Officers and/or their families dying in the camps (in one case a mother and her two children were put into the gas chambers at Auschwitz because they had boarded the wrong train).

[Akmatov]

Err, isn't a large part of the interest here the exploration of things that either really happened or are within the range of what could have happened? Post it.

[Akmatov]

BTB, C47 Recon aircraft?????? I would be astonished.

[rich12545]

Being Jewish I don't see a problem. It's an historical event.

However, I don't see it as being much of a scenario. You have an experienced American fighting unit going up against some non-fighting type weenies. Not much of a conflict.

[M4Jess]

Being Jewish I don't see a problem. It's an historical event.

However, I don't see it as being much of a scenario. You have an experienced American fighting unit going up against some non-fighting type weenies. Not much of a conflict.

Thanks Rich! As I said its Hypothetical, there is lots of action in the scen, the main mission is for the Americans to get to the "POWs" before the SS death squads kill them off. The POWs are worth alot of points.

Jess

[M4Jess]

BTB, C47 Recon aircraft?????? I would be astonished.

I know I know :rolleyes:

[M4Jess]

heres the map....be warned...it is a bit much!

[stevemk1a]

I think it should be posted. I can see attraction of playing the US forces trying to liberate a death camp ... especially with the added challenge of "jazzed up" SS defenders (compared to the historical reality). I would be a little leery of any human player controlling the SS forces and trying to massacre helpless souls before they could be rescued though !

As an observation, I have read that some Concentration camps were evacuated by their actual guards, and then regular Waffen SS combat units were brought in to offer resistance ... and they then suffered the inevitable fate when the true horror of the camps were discovered (not intended as some kind of excuse for them ).

Whatever the case ... these places existed, and were liberated... we can't ignore history, so it would be ridiculous to ban all simulations of events surrounding their existence for the sake of political correctness, the real question is what aspect of the history of the Nazi Death camps is appropriate in the context of a wargame? I personally feel that the liberation of the camps is totally appropriate as a wargaming subject.

[Silencer]

My problem isn't with the portrayal, it's the thought of the player playing the Germans machinegunning the prisoners for no better reason that their own sadistic pleasure nothing personal I'm just sick of this Postal/GTA era where killing the innocent is rewarded.

[M4Jess]

ok then!

Scenario will be here http://www.wargamer.com/gamesdepot/
in a day or two, lets see how you like it....


Jess

[Grenadier]

Think of it as a matter of taste.; I made a node for Lost Victories which had Vebber's company pulled out of the front for severe loses and assigned to Sonderkommando 4A under Sturmbannfuhrer Paul Blobek. For 6 turns the player had to sit guarding prisoners with the SS men and then they would be returned to the Kiev area. The player had a choice of not moving or moving to take a couple of VO's and to even further enhance his score and increase his replacements experience, shooting into the masses of Russian prisoners being guarded. The node was deemed in bad taste and was removed.

Sonderkommando 4A was part of Einsatzgruppe C whose most infamous action was at Babi Yar

[Silencer]

I remember that to win a hostage rescue in Counter-Strike where the Terrorists were defending one last hostage which we could not actually reach due to their constant defense which included someone with a SAW covering the only entrance, our team sniper got annoyed and shot the hostage through a window to remove that distraction. None of us were impressed because we felt we could have taken the hostage without injury, and we'd lost valuable points. We knew we could take them provided we worked as a team, but his sense of moral values did not coincide with those of the rest of the team (who apart from aforementioned sniper are members of the regular army or army reserves, the Sniper was a civie with no military experience, the Terrorist team were likewise all active service members). We were having fun until then as a team trying to prevent the loss of life (house rules allow for the capture of the enemy to use as extra hostages, or taken prisoner), we'd been doing well there had only been one injury sustained by our team and that had been the players own fault for jumping out a window he knew the ground wasn't close enough on.

We got our kicks out of trying to work it as if it were a real life situation, which meant those of us with counter terrorist training (not that many) were leading a team on what might as well have been a real mission (trust me after a day stripping down a Diesel engine in an APC this counted as quality R&R when stuck on base during the alert following 9/11 [not particularly close to home for us since we all belonged to the same squadron which is designated as transport so we knew unless it came to war none of us were likely to be called upon {Not that most of us didn't want to help, we just knew our particular squadron wasn't likely to be called up since our skills and equipment were not neccessary, though we were at high readiness for long enough to seriously screw all of our sex lives up severely}]).

[Lionfish]

I think the scen is fine. However, I can see you point with the SS shooting the prisioners before hand.

Is there anyway to set the scen so that the SS can not shoot the POWs until a certain turn?

or

If they do kill them early the SS loose victory points?

[M4Jess]

I think the scen is fine. However, I can see you point with the SS shooting the prisioners before hand.

Is there anyway to set the scen so that the SS can not shoot the POWs until a certain turn?

or

If they do kill them early the SS loose victory points?

Thats the way it is set up...the Americans have to get to them as fast as possible...

Jess