I'm taking a crack at the "Long Road to Victory" campaign and my core force consists of a full company of mechanized infantry w/ 37mm AT guns in their platoons (also comes with recon in the company), a platoon of M4A1s, a platoon of M13 SPAA guns, a platoon of 75mm SP guns (to be upgraded to M10s), a battery of 75mm SP artillery, a FO, and (of course) several platoons of jeeps and other cheap units to be upgraded later...
I have a weird feeling about this core force....is it historical at all? what would a no-holds-barred absolutely historical run-of-the-mill no connections to quartermasters and supply troops core force for the "long road" campaign consist of? I know there are people on the board who know this stuff inside and out
on that note, what would a bare bones core for the stalingrad camp look like? i'd like to give these camps a shot with the equipment the average troops would have been given to work with.......
im so used to making my own custom core forces....i guess id like to try it from a grognard perspective
Static wrote:I'm taking a crack at the "Long Road to Victory" campaign and my core force consists of a full company of mechanized infantry w/ 37mm AT guns in their platoons (also comes with recon in the company), a platoon of M4A1s, a platoon of M13 SPAA guns, a platoon of 75mm SP guns (to be upgraded to M10s), a battery of 75mm SP artillery, a FO, and (of course) several platoons of jeeps and other cheap units to be upgraded later...
I have a weird feeling about this core force....is it historical at all? what would a no-holds-barred absolutely historical run-of-the-mill no connections to quartermasters and supply troops core force for the "long road" campaign consist of? I know there are people on the board who know this stuff inside and out
on that note, what would a bare bones core for the stalingrad camp look like? i'd like to give these camps a shot with the equipment the average troops would have been given to work with.......
im so used to making my own custom core forces....i guess id like to try it from a grognard perspective
I think I'd want a second platoon of tanks, probably M3's since it's early in the war, and some TD's. TD's were often used as artillery, something you can't use them for in SP:WaW, but I'd include them anyway.
I didn't see any mention made of mortars, so I assume you have only the ones in the company?
ok...here's my shot at a painfully historical core force
-full company of leg infantry (w/ 3x 2-man scout teams, 3x bazooka teams, and a 60mm mortar section)
-5 tank platoon of M3 Lee
-5 tank platoon of M4A1
-4 truck platoon of M6 37mm tank destroyers (jeep-mounted...will be upgraded to M10s)
-6 gun battery of 60mm jeep mortars (to be upgraded to either 105mm Priests or 81mm SP mortars)
-4 gun platoon of M13 SPAA (2x.50 cal...to be upgraded to M15/M16)
-several cheap platoons of jeeps & light trucks to be upgraded to various things
so I'll be buying lots of trucks for my infantry....one question about trucks....when it has a carry capacity of "112" does that mean it can carry a 12-man squad?
Static wrote:ok...here's my shot at a painfully historical core force
-full company of leg infantry (w/ 3x 2-man scout teams, 3x bazooka teams, and a 60mm mortar section)
-5 tank platoon of M3 Lee
-5 tank platoon of M4A1
-4 truck platoon of M6 37mm tank destroyers (jeep-mounted...will be upgraded to M10s)
-6 gun battery of 60mm jeep mortars (to be upgraded to either 105mm Priests or 81mm SP mortars)
-4 gun platoon of M13 SPAA (2x.50 cal...to be upgraded to M15/M16)
-several cheap platoons of jeeps & light trucks to be upgraded to various things
so I'll be buying lots of trucks for my infantry....one question about trucks....when it has a carry capacity of "112" does that mean it can carry a 12-man squad?
feel free to critique, ridicule, etc...
IIRC, by the time of that campaign the M3 Lee had already been deemed "unfit" for combat and returned to the States for use in training, with the Stuart replacing it.
Yes, "112" in the "carry capacity" means the unit can hold up to a 12 man unit (any unit with a "12" or less in its "carry cost") Also, the "1xx" designator means it can tow a "class 1" gun (lightweight), a "2xx" would be good for heavier guns. You need to be aware though that the gun crew counts towards your "12". (Example: You have a gun with a carry cost of 106, and an 8 man squad. There are 6 men in the gun crew (the xx6 part) and 8 in the squad, for a total of 14, so you can't carry both, but you could tow the gun and load a 6 man squad) To load a 2nd unit on a truck (or barge, etc) have all three units in the same hex (adjoining for a barge), click the truck, hit "L" and choose one of the two units, it will load. Now click the remaining unit (deselecting the truck and selecting the 2nd unit you want to load), hit "L" and click the truck. They will then pile on. If you try to do it any other way you just keep unloading the truck when you hit "L" the 2nd time.
i'll redo my core with a leg infantry company, platoon of shermans, platoon of stuarts, platoon of SP 37mm AT (to be upgraded to M10), 4x 60mm jeep mortar (to be upgraded), platoon of M13 SPAA, and maybe some mechanized recon or fire support units
now i just have to take over that airfield.......
now i need to figure out what a good ultra-historical core for the stalingrad campaign would be
I'm not saying what you have is "ultra" historical, there are too many variables involved, and dozens of different opinions on the subject, but what you have now is close. The main problem becomes one of identifying "what" your core force represents. Is it a division, a reinforced company, a company in conjunction with divisional reserves and armor assets? See what I'm getting at?
I'm also sure there will be others who chime in here with differing opinions, and that's one of the best things about this forum, the diversity. However, you as the play have to choose just what your forces are supposed to be, then use them in that role.
I agree that the most difficult part of choosing a core is clearly defining what your TOE is supposed to look like
Many campaigns seem to be built around the principle of using a specific force, both with point allocation and the type of scenarios/maps that are used.
I believe that "long road" is, as you suggested, designed for a basic force of an infantry company (of some kind) and two platoons of AFVs, with other support units....the stalingrad campaign also seems to be designed this way
A couple of thoughts anytime you upgrade you are going to lose experience and while it is possible to upgrade anything to anything , you can upgrade somthing into another class of something and have low values in critical values .. ie upgrade a truck to engineers and have low infantry command values.
Also the main fire power of a leg infantry company is in the Leg Inf Bn HQ Company which has the AT Guns and the Bn Heavy Weapons Company which has the 81mm Mortars .. Both HQ and Heavy weapons would have alot of extra Bazookas that could be detailed out to a Inf Company.
Your intial core forces are going to gain important experience, some of which will be lost in upgrading, each time you upgrade.
Only Airborne would have towed 75mm , So leg Infantry would have as a minimum 105mm How's in support ( off board ) with a good chance of 155mm.
Recon is going to take the most casulities , if you are reconing the battlefield with them , which means it is going to be the hardest to get increases in experience for surviving.
Concider making a good solid core .. you seem to be on the right track Inf Company Couple Platoons of Armor I would go 1 Platoon Shermans 1 Platoon M3 Stuarts , Some 81 mm Mortars and a pair of the best AT guns you can get , Trucks enough to transport everything , With anything left over get some M-13's and recon recon recon inculding bazooka teams , I would not bother with the SP 37mm.. to easy to spot and knock out compared to towed 37mm, and perferably the 3"/75mm AT guns . Look to the extra Recon as the units to upgrade to M10's and then in each secnario use you support points for off board arty / air and expendable recon . Don't forget to get FO's and a couple of ammo trucks .. if not in your core , then plan to upgrade some of the recon jeeps to ammo trucks , the FO's are a MUST HAVE . Get 4 man recon teams with the Infantry company , but make all additional recon teams 2 man .
As you upgrade you core recon jeeps to M10's and your 2 man recon teams to Engineers , make sure you replace the recon with buys from your support points at the start of each scenario. Make sure you upgrade something for trucks or Halftracks for the engineers .. Do not waste points on buying elete recon for the core and buy the cheapest jeeps you can, recon spots , not fights
Carry some extra 2 man recon on your lead tanks , Those 60mm jeeps are good to have and should replace the infantry company 60mm mortars since historically the US 60mm had smoke and the jeeps are the only way to get the smoke.( after you buy the Infantry Company just delete the company mortars and replace them with the 60mm Jeep mortars ) . You will want to keep a balance of 60mm and 81mm mortars thru out the campaign because the 60mm can safely fire much closer to your own troops . I don't know why , but for some strange reason 81mm and larger mortars in SPWAW fire incredibly large and random spreads despite the fact that historically it would be a rare mortar of any size that wouldn't be able to keep almost all of it's shells inside a 50 yard hex in real life at anything less than absolute maximum range in the middle of a tornado.
Just so you know, at Bn Level , and for assignment to the Bn's 3 Infantry Companies you would have a minimum of 16 extra bazookas 3 towed AT guns and 6 81mm Mortars , Typically the majority of these extra weapons would be "shared" with the Two Infantry Companies that are "up front" . The Infantry Bn would be one of three in the Regiment, Regiment would have a 105mm Battery( 6 guns) and the 3 regiments in the Division would have a Arty Regiment of 36 105mm and 18 155 at Division level to share .. typically in a combat situation the Division would have a Tank Bn ( 3 companies of 17 tanks ea , 2 Medium ,1 Light ) a Tank Destroyer Bn ( 3 Companies of 12-17 TD ea) a AAA Bn ( 3 companies of 12 guns either towed or SP with at least 1 being SP) a recon Bn and an additional Regiment ( or two) of Artillery all attached and farmed out to the Infantry Bn's and on down to Company to support combat operations. So you can use this info as a guide on how to reinforce a Inf Company and stay within Historical bounds . These assets at Regiment and Division would not be equally shared , but detailed to support those units not in reserve and in actual contact with the enemy as the Division or Regimental Comanders saw fit. So that should give you some idea of what you have to draw on and a great deal of latitude to reinforce and stay within Historical bounds. The Arty would not be hard wired to support any particular Bn or Company , but would be available to any unit that called for fire , to which any and all Arty Batteries not having a current fire mission would/ could respond . Armor, TD, AAA, and Recon would be hard attached and thus be part of your core. Hope that helps.
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