Why did the Japanese never finish off the Ryujo's carrier deck???

[Tanaka]

Seems like the ship could have carried more planes. All the other japanese carriers had fully extended decks so why was the Ryujo left hanging???

PC comments: Sorry just using it as I would in saying U.S. carriers.

[Brady]

Is it me or is "Jap" not PC?, not that I am big PC fanatic, another forum I frequent prety much came to the conclushion that JAP is a deragatory term.

I dont of course mean to imply that Tanaka used it in this since, just an observation.

[mogami]

"Ryujo, a nominally 8000-ton aircraft carrier built at Yokohama, Japan, was completed in May 1933. Soon afterwards, the Japanese Navy discovered that an entire generation of warships, designed to squeeze a great deal of fighting power into hulls of limited size, were incapable of safe operation in the open ocean. Ryujo was one of these, and during the mid-1930s she was extensively reconstructed to make her suitable for service. Though very small for her intended fleet carrier duties, she was actively employed during the war against China later in the decade. The ship was again modified in 1940, when her low forecastle was built up one deck to improve seakeeping."

[MikeH1952]

Hi Tanaka
I looked this up and according to my source (Roger Chesneau's Aircraft Carriers of the World 1995), Ryujo was essentally unstable due to a poor hull design, and this plus plus the fact that the bridge was just under the leading edge of the flight deck and needed the improved visibility, led to the shorter than optimum flight deck. I think that the need to keep topweight down must have been the major reason as surely the bridge could have been moved further forward easily.

[Nikademus]

your not being anal Brady....the same subject came up on Warships1.com about 2 years ago. It was quickly decided among all the regulars that the term "Jap" was rather derogatory due to it's use back during the war (essentially put on the same par as calling British soldier's "Limeys".

I try not to use it myself in public forums though obviously its tempting to use it because its a natural for a quick "abreviation".

Ryujo: Not so much poorly designed as just plain overloaded. The classic failed experiement of trying to achieve too much on too little displacement. Ryujo was a between the wars experiment to see if a viable carrier could be produced on a hull of 10,000 tons or lighter. Viable defined as an airgroup that approached within at least 50% or more of a full fleet carrier's airgroup.

It has to be remembered that at the time of her construction, the "first" carriers of the US and Japanese navies were battlecruiser conversions and thus were monster cuts out of the allocated tonnage alloted to both services in total carrier strength. Both sides prefered numbers vs having only several huge carriers, especially given the concerns of their vulnerability hence for the Japanese, that resulted in the Ryujo, and for the Americans, the Ranger.

Both carriers were not successful and proved that larger displacements were needed to bring about a proper balance. Ranger however was bigger and thereby "less" unsuccessful but she still ended up serving in the less carrier intensive Atlantic for her entire career.

The Japanese though were stuck with using Ryujo in the Pacific. Air-wise she fielded an impressive group for such a small carrier but as allueded too, her stability was seriously in question on commissioning and she eventually had to return to the dockyard to be bulged. That helped but her margin of stab. remained razor tight, hence her AA aramament and flight deck size remained severely restricted. In the future, Japanese CVL's would resort to a single hanger vs Ryujo's double hanger.

[Admiral DadMan]

Furthermore, Ryujo was an attempt to take advantage to a clause in the Washington Naval Limitation Treaty that did not count Carriers under 10,000 tons.

[pasternakski]

I also try not to use "Jap," out of repect for Japanese people. This shorthand emerged among Allied (particularly American) military early in WWII and spread to the general population and media. American hatred of the Japanese in WWII was particularly vitriolic and usages like "Jap" and worse ones were intended to be insulting. So, I try to leave it behind because I'm such a wonderful human being...

"Limey," by the way was (and still is) used with reference to sailors in the Royal Navy, based on ships carrying limes in order to help reduce the incidence of scurvy while at sea. I have never seen this term being branded as offensive in the same sense as "Jap."

Didn't some of the other Japanese CVLs and CVEs have the same general profile with the protruding bow? Seems to me that the Shohos looked something similar. I'm gonna go find some pictures and have a look.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

I also try not to use "Jap," out of repect for Japanese people. This shorthand emerged among Allied (particularly American) military early in WWII and spread to the general population and media. American hatred of the Japanese in WWII was particularly vitriolic and usages like "Jap" and worse ones were intended to be insulting. So, I try to leave it behind because I'm such a wonderful human being...

"Limey," by the way was (and still is) used with reference to sailors in the Royal Navy, based on ships carrying limes in order to help reduce the incidence of scurvy while at sea. I have never seen this term being branded as offensive in the same sense as "Jap."

Didn't some of the other Japanese CVLs and CVEs have the same general profile with the protruding bow? Seems to me that the Shohos looked something similar. I'm gonna go find some pictures and have a look.

heh, tell that too General "Vinegar" Stillwell. His lack of love for his Commonwealth compatriots from General on down to their troops was expressed with interest as "&(*&@ Limeys" [X(]

[pasternakski]

No accounting for Joe. Yes, some did adopt "limey" (and other inventions) as negative labels for the British, but it didn't become as endemic as "Jap" and the other national and racial slurs. You kind of wonder how Americans were referred to in Japanese slang...

[Brady]

.....Round Eye.....

[Damien Thorn]

Another derogatory term used to refer to Japanese is "nips", which also happens to be a cracker made by Kraft or Nabisco.

[pasternakski]

Not to mention a rather delectable tidbit of the female anatomy.

[Mike Scholl]

Personally I'll try to use "Japanese" when there is room and time, but I see no more harm
in shortening it to "Japs" on occasion than I do in refering to the "Brits" when I'm speaking
about the British. By and large, I find most "PC" to be "BS".

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
By and large, I find most "PC" to be "BS".

[:D]

When english native speakers have trouble identifying my accent, I often tell them that I'm a Kraut... - if they start to smirk, I know we most likely will get along well. [:'(]

[mbatch729]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
. By and large, I find most "PC" to be "BS".

Amen to that. While I do try to be aware of other people in my choice of words, too many people get offended by things they shouldn't. The only reason I can think of is they are looking for something to get mad about.

[Nikademus]

We used "Brits" on warships1 as well, noone ever had a problem with it, UK citizen or otherwise, anymore than "Aussie" or "Yank" , "Kiwi"

[:)]

[Admiral DadMan]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

We used "Brits" on warships1 as well, noone ever had a problem with it, UK citizen or otherwise, anymore than "Aussie" or "Yank" , "Kiwi"

[:)]

Speaking of Warships1, it is sad to see that the content was pulled down except for stuff that is of little interest (to me at least). I wish I had the time and the disk space to at least host the parts I would want to use most.

Having money to send would have been nice too...

[Nikademus]

I know, i put in some serious hours contributing to the warship OOB [:@] Not to mention my fiction stories and "photo adventure" aboard the USS Texas got sent to oblivion as well

Alas, i cant fault Guy though. He's kept the site up for years pretty much on his own nickel.......and web services only get more and more expensive each year. Hopefully in the near future the warship OOB's can be restored.....they were a great online reference

[mbatch729]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

We used "Brits" on warships1 as well, noone ever had a problem with it, UK citizen or otherwise, anymore than "Aussie" or "Yank" , "Kiwi"

[:)]

Hey, some of us Southern folks still take exception at being called "Yank". so watch it!!!! [:'(]

[pasternakski]

"Why did the Japanese never finish off the Ryujo's carrier deck?"

Maybe they were planning on building a barbecue on the end.