CLGA 1805/1809 owners

[James Quinn]

Hello Frank, I am an old owner of CLGA 1805/1809. I understood when the game was updated us old owners would be able to obtain the new version for a reduced rate (or at no charge). Can you let me know what it is I need to do in order to order the game for this reduced price? Thank you. - James Quinn

[pkpowers]

Yes I was very curious about this also.

[FrankHunter]

For anyone who bought the 1805/1809 from me and wishes to also purchase the Matrix game,
send me your Matrix receipt (customer number etc) and I'll send back to you a rebate of $6.

My address is

Frank Hunter
Box 1046, 22870 96th Ave
Langley, BC, Canada
V1M 2S4

Thanks!

[James Quinn]

Frank, thank you for the reply but I am very disappointed in the contents of it.

We paid full price for this game once already. Now that it has been upgraded we have to pay 75% of the full price a second time? That doesn't seem right to me at all and I do not intend to buy the Matrix version. I just can't stand how this company does business. Instead of creating good will they drive people away. I'm really sorry you signed on with them. I am sure in the long run it will only hurt you.

Look to HPS Simulations. When they upgrade a game they give the upgrade out free of charge, even after 10 upgrades to an individual title. Over the last few years I've spent over a thousand dollars with HPS and $0 with Matrix. Can you see why? Did Matrix tell you when you signed on with them that they would take care of your old loyal customers? Well if they did tell you that they lied.

Best regards to you as Frank, honestly meant. You design good games and are an honest person. You are however associating yourself with a very poor element. (I wonder if Matrix will delete this message?) If you would like to communicate with me privately my e-mail address is jqky@hotmail.com. - James Quinn

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: James Quinn

Frank, thank you for the reply but I am very disappointed in the contents of it.

We paid full price for this game once already. Now that it has been upgraded we have to pay 75% of the full price a second time? That doesn't seem right to me at all and I do not intend to buy the Matrix version. I just can't stand how this company does business. Instead of creating good will they drive people away. I'm really sorry you signed on with them. I am sure in the long run it will only hurt you.

Look to HPS Simulations. When they upgrade a game they give the upgrade out free of charge, even after 10 upgrades to an individual title. Over the last few years I've spent over a thousand dollars with HPS and $0 with Matrix. Can you see why? Did Matrix tell you when you signed on with them that they would take care of your old loyal customers? Well if they did tell you that they lied.

Best regards to you as Frank, honestly meant. You design good games and are an honest person. You are however associating yourself with a very poor element. (I wonder if Matrix will delete this message?) If you would like to communicate with me privately my e-mail address is jqky@hotmail.com. - James Quinn

Wow... totally a 180 degree difference from my dealings with matrix. They've done nothing but create good will in my book and I've placed 3 orders with them and bought one game in a store.

The only 'upgrades' that I've seen from hps has been to retro-fit added features like explicit supply into older games in patches. Maybe this is all that's happening with this game, I don't know though as I don't own the old game to compare what has changed/been added.

[David Heath]

ORIGINAL: James Quinn

Frank, thank you for the reply but I am very disappointed in the contents of it.

We paid full price for this game once already. Now that it has been upgraded we have to pay 75% of the full price a second time? That doesn't seem right to me at all and I do not intend to buy the Matrix version. I just can't stand how this company does business. Instead of creating good will they drive people away. I'm really sorry you signed on with them. I am sure in the long run it will only hurt you.

Look to HPS Simulations. When they upgrade a game they give the upgrade out free of charge, even after 10 upgrades to an individual title. Over the last few years I've spent over a thousand dollars with HPS and $0 with Matrix. Can you see why? Did Matrix tell you when you signed on with them that they would take care of your old loyal customers? Well if they did tell you that they lied.

Best regards to you as Frank, honestly meant. You design good games and are an honest person. You are however associating yourself with a very poor element. (I wonder if Matrix will delete this message?) If you would like to communicate with me privately my e-mail address is jqky@hotmail.com. - James Quinn

Hi James

I am sorry you feel this way. I find it hard to see how you got this way since you never purchased anything from us according to your post above. Matrix goes out of its way to support our gamers and bring them great games. I think our record more then shows this. Frank sold the game via his web site and to other online sites and we have no way to track these customers. Frank wanted to handle this directly and we agreed. When you upgrade a game you mainly fix some bugs or add a minor feature or two. We reworked all the graphics, added music, special effects and rewrote the manual. Frank went and improved the GUI, AI and fix some bugs we found together in the game. We all put a lot more work into this then planned. Heck we worked so long on this that it delayed two of Frank future releases with us well over two months. I think we can say this is a little more than a minor patch (which by the way are always free).

As for being a very poor element [8|] we will let our customers and games tell the tale there. For everyone else that are enjoying our games and supporting us we thank you.

David

[James Quinn]

Then I will offer a solution. I will mail my original CLGA CD to Matrix along with $6 (the difference between what Adanac charged and what Matrix is charging) for a new CotD CD. Would that be an acceptable way of handling this tranistion for those of us who own Frank's original game? - James

[FrankHunter]

The problem with that is it involves Matrix. The previous game had nothing to do with Matrix, they did not receive any of the dollars I charged. So it would mean asking a company that had nothing to do with the previous game to sell their game for $6, which would not be fair to Matrix. I on the other hand can't afford to buy games from Matrix for previous customers which is why I chose $6 as the amount of the rebate on a game that was $15 (+ $3 post rolled in).

[Capt. Queeg]

It's a generous offer, more than necessary. I bought and very much enjoyed CLGA and am pleased that your new relationship with Matrix will allow more and even better games to follow. I more than got my money's worth on CLGA and don't feel I'm "owed" anything simply because you now have the opportunity to offer an updated version of the game through Matrix. Congratulations on your first Matrix release and here's looking forward to many more.

[jnier]

I think Frank's offer is a generous one. For people (like myself) who purchased the original 1805/1809 we received and still possess a great game for only $15. Fifteen bucks - that's it. Now that Matrix has released the game in an improved version does not change the fact that you still own the very good original game at a very cheap price.

As for HPS. Every time they release a new scenario for one of Tiller's games they want to charge you another $40-50 bucks. Heck you could have bought the orginal from Frank AND the new version from Matrix for less than that (15+25-6=$34). I hardly think that Frank or Matrix is being unfair.

[pasternakski]

Count me solidly in support of Matrix and the Matrix/Adanac consortium.

This is obviously a "re-release," not a "patch."

I don't understand why some people can't get the idea that a company has to make money to stay in business. If this were instead all about kissing the customer's @ss, there would be no Matrix, no 2by3, no Adanac, no Frank Hunter games, and we wargamers would all be the losers.

The price seems to me to be quite reasonable, and Frank's rebate offer more than generous.

I look forward to doing further business with Matrix and have no complaints - at the moment...

[sol_invictus]

I feel that both Frank and Matrix are being very reasonable in this matter. I thank god that there is a company like Matrix that is devoted to quality wargames. If you bought CotD from Frank when it was first offered, then yeah, the timing might seem bad, but now that the transition has been made; we can look forward to a very fortuitous relationship between Frank and Matrix.

[mariovalleemtl]

Because there is not to many people who did Napoleonic game, I am please to offer you my 6$ so you could buy you a drink to celebrate this new edition. Thank you Frank and David.

mario

[VictorH]

$25.00 isn't a bad price to upgrade.

[coach3play4]

I don't see the need for a rebate. This seems to be the same situation as say the CIV series of games - each one with improvements.

[Capitaine]

On this whole rebate bit -- all companies -- it seems that increasingly, previously published games are being rereleased by new/other companies with varying degrees of improvements; very little to fairly good. Either way, no one can expect the new company to treat the product as if they had sold it the first time. No company on earth does this or would do this. Had Matrix been the original publisher and these upgrades were made, I daresay it would've been a patch, but they weren't and it isn't.

While I'm a first time owner of CotD, I've been on the other end w/ other titles ("Airborne Assault", e.g.), and I happily sprung for the newer game w/o even taking avail of the meager $5 rebate -- although I appreciated the gesture.

I think this will happen occasionally in the increasingly difficult world of PC wargame designs and we just have to accept this facet and concentrate our concerns on game quality first and foremost. After all, games not worth playing are not worth buying OR getting a rebate for a trade-in...

[bhaktamichael]

Mr, Quinn;

for the good will of all involved, contact me at bhaktamichaels@earthlink.com and I will either buy you a copy of the game my compliments or send you the funds to do so yourself. I have played Mr. Hunter's games a long time ago and look forward to his ACS revision of this and wish to pay him for his labor so that it might continue - I for one like Matrix (and HPS) and think they are both good companies doing the best they can in tough economic times. Now let's go play some good wargames, shall we???

Michael

[pasternakski]

Mr. bhaktamichael, the wonderful:

It is so wonderful to find a wonderful philanthropist like you in a world filled with cold, hard people who don't understand the cold, hard problems the disadvantaged have to deal with every cold, hard day.

I am a successful entrepreneur who has fallen on hard times. My highly successful business, "Pak's Auto Insurance for the Blind" has fallen on hard times. It wasn't the claims, it was the taxes and the lawyers. Then my son, the one with the eye that kind of looks at the ceiling all the time, had to have an operation.

My wife hounds me every day for child support. I am in desperate straits until next week's lottery tickets are available.

Worse, I do not currently receive a check.

If you could see it in your heart, Mr. bhaktamichael the Wonderful (with a capital "W") to send some assistance my way, I am sure that God, Allah, Jehovah, Pectoralis, or the deity of your choice that you worship in what I am sure is your worshipful way will bless you for it. When I am back on my feet again and everyone wants to be my long-lost friend, I will repay you in spades (of whom I own six - maybe seven - it's hard to keep count with the colored).

Then I will go on to fulfill my true mission in life, which you will honor me for, I am sure, bringing relief to the constipated. I will erect a monument in your honor, with maybe your likeness on it, with the inscription, "He came. He saw. He shrugged his shoulders and walked away."

Please, sir, post your message to my e-mail, which is monitored by the caretakers here, so that I can forward my forwarding address to which you can mail your generous check.

With adoration for your anticipated generosity,

Aiaskdya en Thenkkew

[ravinhood]

LOL there's grubbers everywhere nowadays! LOL

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: James Quinn

Frank, thank you for the reply but I am very disappointed in the contents of it.

We paid full price for this game once already. Now that it has been upgraded we have to pay 75% of the full price a second time? That doesn't seem right to me at all and I do not intend to buy the Matrix version. I just can't stand how this company does business. Instead of creating good will they drive people away. I'm really sorry you signed on with them. I am sure in the long run it will only hurt you.

Look to HPS Simulations. When they upgrade a game they give the upgrade out free of charge, even after 10 upgrades to an individual title. Over the last few years I've spent over a thousand dollars with HPS and $0 with Matrix. Can you see why? Did Matrix tell you when you signed on with them that they would take care of your old loyal customers? Well if they did tell you that they lied.

What a strange post [&:]

If you have spent that much with HPS, you must have bought most if not all of their releases. Have you done so, you will have found yourself paying full game price on many occasions for what are essentially scenario packs - the sort of stuff many developers let you have for free. Or do you view SB: Vietnam and Tour of Duty together (or tPatF and PW) as good value for $100... wouldn't $50 and another $20 or additional scenarios be more like it ? And have you considered that as the earlier games in each series are still sold at full price, keeping each game up with improvements has more to do with marketing than generosity ?

Not to mention that HPS still refuse to provide a map editor for SB or PC. Or the only way you can create them for PoA 2 is to pay another $50 on AdC 2. The latter really peed me off to be honest... I really wanted to do some of my own stuff for that, but still havn't decided whether to fork out again or not.

Am I being unfair on HPS ? Maybe, a little. But no more unfair than you are on Matrix.... they are in the business to make a living, and while buyers of previous versions of the game may have been Frank's loyal customers they are not, as you demonstrate, Matrix's loyal customers. The Matrix release isn't expensive anyway.. especially accounting for improvements. It's a better deal than EYSA (GIC) and HttR (RDoA) customers got... but most buyers of those games, including me, were happy enough to buy a new and improved version with minimal or no rebate.